A hand with Negreanu and McEvoy

[PiquetteAces]

Its the beginning of a 50$ NL-tournement on pokerstar . At my table there is Daniel Negreanu 2 spots to my right and Tom McEvoy 4 spots to my right . Not a good lineup for me .

Its like the 4th hand of the tournement ( blinds 10-20 , we start with 1500T$ ) . I have Q3off UTG and I move all-in . No , I didn't . I fold . They all fold until the cut-off who calls , McEvoy calls , the sb calls and Daniel Negreanu raise and make it 230 from the BB ( ??? ) . The cut-off fold and Tom McEvoy make a limp-re-raise all-in ~1500T$( !!! ) . The sb fold and Negreanu call very quickly . So the hands open , and Negreanu got AJoff and McEvoy JTs ( ?!?! ) .

Maybe I miss something but that make no sense to me that 2 top players are making/playing a big pot very early in a tournement of ~200 players without to have a premium hand . Why Negreanu call that raise when he is ( I guess ) teh best player playing that tournement . He's gambling all is chips in a hand that he could be huge underdog or 50-50 .He was not underdog , and nor 50-50 , he was favorite , how he knew? I dono .


Anybody can explain me what they were doing ?

The result is irrevelant but if you are curious ...

FLOP : 8s9dQd ---> Giving McEvoy straight + open-ended straight flush draw .

Turn : 8s9dQd_7h
River : 8s9dQd_7h_Tc ---> and they split .

- jpp

[Greg (FossilMan)]

I wouldn't be surprised to learn that they are playing for free, maybe even getting paid a salary in addition to being given the freeroll entry. So, there is no money pressure or the like, and they aren't necessarily playing their "A" game.

However, Daniel can be VERY aggressive, and probably wanted to play a hand like this early on for show. He expected you all to fold, and then he'd show that he only had a decent hand, not a great one. McEvoy may have known this, and figured Daniel likely has a decent hand at best, and as such he would lay it down to the all-in, and then McEvoy could show his bluff and be the one putting on the show (and making a nice profit early on). Daniel either saw this possibility and called the raise, or didn't care about gambling with the worst of it, and therefore called for that reason.

You can be sure that none of this would've come down this way in a big event with status and/or big bucks on the line.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

[cferejohn]

I have been in tournies on PokerStars with Tom M. a number of times. I've never really gotten into a hand with him, but I have noticed that he tends to like to either double up or lose early, presumably on the reasoning that there are other games he could play profitably (whether online or live in LV), so if he can't get himself into a position where he stands a good chance of making the money, I think he'd just as soon go out quickly. He is often among the first 2 or 3 players out, and occasionally gets to the money, but almost never goes out after an hour or so. I imagine Dan N either a) has a similar philosophy for these low buy-in online tournies or b) is aware of Tom M's tendencies in this regard or c) both.

[fnurt]

There is something in the FAQ at Stars to the effect that McEvoy doesn't get paid for playing in tournaments, or otherwise get any kind of special deal, aside from the heads-up promotion he participates in.

[Jimbo]

Here is a conspiracy theory for you.

They both knew what the final cards would be on the board except neither one knew that the other one knew as well. Since they were gonna both have the nuts on the river they could chop up anyone without a jack! /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

[RiverMel]

From the FAQ:

Tom is contracted by PokerStars as an ambassador of PokerStars at the brick-and-mortar tournaments he plays throughout the world. He is also playing at PokerStars, as many players asked us to provide them an opportunity to play against a celebrity player. Tom has absolutely no access to any more information than any PokerStars player. He is clearly identified; his nickname is "Tom McEvoy", and you may decide whether you want to play at the same table as him or not. There is no requirement for Tom to play any set number of hours at PokerStars and his remuneration does not depend on how much or how little he plays on our site. Finally, when playing side games and tournaments at PokerStars, Tom plays with his own money with the exception of the weekly match challenge. PokerStars has no vested interest in whether Tom wins or loses the match.

[maplepig]

Amazing, but I think Daniel Negreanu's call is probably more correct than wrong. With McEvoy limped, how likely he holds KK, QQ, AK, AQ? If he holds AQ, that's still a big bluff allin, it's not much different from raising allin with TJs. KK, QQ? McEvoy will slow play KK, QQ preflop without a raise?? AK, wouldn't it be a great hand to call and use the position advantage on the flop? AA, why waste it? Of course McEvoy is a great player, he's not as predictable, but since he's just as likely to bluff as playing unpredictably with those premium hands, why not call with AJ with 230 already in the pot?
I am not suggesting that I can make that call, I'll definitely fold without hesitation, but that's probably why McEvoy can outplay me while he may not outplay Daniel Negreanu. After all, it's only a $50 online tourney, he can play as wild as he likes.

[HavanaBanana]

I played in a 50 points satellite at Stars a few months back, the winners got seats in the 500 points next level satellite.
I played like a maniac , and surely someone yelled at me telling me how bad I played.
THEY WERE WRONG!

See, the value of 500 points is lets say 10$ and tourney would last atleast 3 hours, so even if I won I would only make 9 dollars value (450 points) thats 3$ an hour, and ofcourse the EV would be considerably less.

Well, I make many times that an hour playing cash games, so for me, the best thing to do was to play like a maniac, if I had gotten a big stack I would have continued playing for the entertainment value, and if I lose it all, I'm better off than playing.

These factors might come into play for the best players who play 'small' tournaments.

[Martin Aigner]

CO calls first in! Who expects him to have a big hand?

Tom Mc calls on the button. If he has a big hand he´d very likely raise. He´d probably raise even every A high and K high hand he dicides to play in this spot.

SB calls. He might be the one player for Daniel to be afraid of most.

Given this scenario Daniel is capable to raise with any give hand, esp. early in a low buy in tourney.

CO folds. He obviously had the hand he announced by his preflop call.

Now it´s Toms turn. He knows Dan, and therfor puts him on a steal. What do you do against a steal? Resteal! So he moved all in.

Sb mucks. Now it´s Dans turn again. He knows that Tom knows that Dan doesn´t need a hand to raise from the BB in this situation. So it is very likely that he is in front at that time or has a 50/50 chance against something like 22. Easy call, IMHO.

The pressure would be something else in a WSOP event, the logic still the same. What makes the difference is that Daniel very likely would have made this call in a big event too, most of us would have mucked in big buy in event. In a low buy in event lots of people would have made the call.

Just my thoughts

Martin Aigner

[yct]

Perhaps $50 is nothing to them since they are so used to the bigger tourneys? So they treated it as a freeroll tourney and gamble up?

[Guy McSucker]

Interesting post. I disagreed with this:
CO calls first in! Who expects him to have a big hand?

I do. With a half decent hand, he ought to raise to steal. With a speculative hand, he ought to fold because there's no evidence he can get action if he hits the flop. So the only hand he might consider limping with is a monster, AA or KK, wanting to let someone in a blind hit one pair.

At least, those are the only hands I would limp with.


Guy.

[fnurt]

That's correct Guy, but on the first hand of an online tournament, it's entirely possible CO is just a weak/passive player. Frankly I think limping would be asking for trouble even with AA, you're not going to win any money if no one has a real hand, but you'll lose a lot if one of the blinds flops 2 pair...

It's fine to be wary of the possibility of a trap, but let's say CO limps in and you're holding TT in the SB. Are you really going to fold just because personally you'd only limp with a monster in CO? /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

[Martin Aigner]

Especially in late position I would raise with a monster hand. Even more so, I might even overbet, such as 5 or 6 times the BB to make it look like a steal. But you are righ, everybody playes another style. So the chances of playing against a monster were existent. Still I like the raise of Daniel. At least he gets some information about the CO.

Best regards

Martin Aigner

[Guy McSucker]

I agree that limping is asking for trouble with AA or KK.

What I meant when I said "those are the only hands I'd limp with" was not that I would limp with those hands, but that I certainly would not limp with anything else, if you see what I mean.

In my experience, limping in with AA in late position fools nobody... but it is so frustrating to win just the blinds. Nevertheless, winning the blinds beats the hell out of losing your whole stack.

Guy.

[J_V]

I've played with them both quite a bit in limit and tourneys and they are nowhere near the two best players in the tourney. I doubt the thinking went much like anyone here describes especially Greg. It's a $50 dollar tourney you are giving them all way too much credit for deeply analyzing a small online tourney.