Not An Easy Thing To Do

[andyfox]

Almost half the public, 46 percent, say the level of ethics and honesty in the federal government has fallen with Bush as president.

Not an easy thing to do, given that the prior president was Bill Clinton.

From some of your posts I've gotten the impression you're "Democrat Party Inclined." So, I'm assuming this to be another shot at GWB.

I'm not defending him, or his party of choice. What I'd like to know is just how does the crap done by any member of the House or Senate relate to who's in the Oval Office?

Leaders lead those who choose to be lead. Those who do not want to be lead can not be lead. They have their own interests to tend to.

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What I'd like to know is just how does the crap done by any member of the House or Senate relate to who's in the Oval Office?

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What leads you to believe that the reason for the poll results cited was conduct of congresscritters and not the conduct of white house officials that have been indicted?
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[Voltron87]

i have zero respect for the bush administration. what they have been doing is just insane.

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What leads you to believe that the reason for the poll results cited was conduct of congresscritters and not the conduct of white house officials that have been indicted?



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Fair question. And I plead guilty to "ass-u-ming." (damn i hate when i do that!)

Now if only Andy will enlighten us.

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[Nepa]

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Almost half the public, 46 percent, say the level of ethics and honesty in the federal government has fallen with Bush as president.

Not an easy thing to do, given that the prior president was Bill Clinton.

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There is no doubt that Slick Willy was a lot better at lying.

I believe there are a few reasons that it is falling now. It is not just the White Houses' fault. The House and the Senate could take some of the blame. You can also put some of the blame on Coin Gate.

Delay, Frist, Tom Noe, Scooter

[andyfox]

-The Senate Intelligence Committee released its initial findings on prewar integlligence in July 2005. The committee's Republican chairman, Pat Roberts, promised that a Phase 2 to determine whether the White House had misled the public would arrive after the presidential election. It still hasn't. Murray Waas reported in the National Journal on Thursday that Vice President Cheney and Scooter Libby had refused to provide the committee with crucial documents, including Scooter Libby-written pasages from early drafts of Colin Powell's presentation of WMD evidence to the U.N.

-Vice President Cheney, early on, said that American troops would be greeted as liberators in Iraq. Last summer, he said the insurgency was in its last throes.

-In December, 2001, Cheney, on "Meet the Press" said "it's been pretty well confirmed" that there was a direct pre-9/11 link betwen Mohammed Atta and Iraqi intelligence. When that link was later disproved, Cheney was confronted about his Meet the Press remark by Gloria Borger on CNBC. Three times Cheney told her that he never said it.

-President Bush said in May, 2003, "We found the weapons of mass destruction."

-Earlier this month, the president announced the foiling of ten AL Qaeda plots. USA Today reported last week that at least six of the ten "involved preliminary ideas about potential attacks, not terrorist operations that were about to be carried out."

-In June, President Bush said that "federal terorism investigations have resulted in charges against more than 400 suspects" and that "more than half" of those had been convicted. The Washington Post found that only 39 of these convictions had involved terrorism or national security.

-Keith Olbermann recently compiled 13 "coincidences" in which "a political downturn for the administration is followed by a 'terror event'--a change in alert status, an arrest, a warning." For example, in 2002, during the fallout from the televised testimony of FBI whistle-blower Coleen Rowley, John Ashcroft broadcast via satellite from Russia that the government had "disrupted an unfolding terrorist plot" to explode a dirty bomb. What he was actually referring to was the arrest of one person, Jose Padilla, for allegedly exploring such a plan. The arrest had taken place one month earlier.

At the Republican National Convention, in August, 2000, Mr. Cheney said that "on the first hour of the first day, he [President Bush] will restore decency and integrity to the Oval Office." The American people now have a lot of evidence to show them that this did not come to pass.

I was looking for your reference source which caused you to post this...

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Almost half the public, 46 percent, say the level of ethics and honesty in the federal government has fallen with Bush as president.



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Your detailed rant was tl;dr. What I did pick up was all old news.

[andyfox]

ABC-Washington Post poll.

"Your detailed rant was tl;dr." -What does that mean? Thanks.

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ABC-Washington Post poll.

"Your detailed rant was tl;dr." -What does that mean? Thanks.

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The Post has absolutely nothing on their site about this poll. I finally found it on the ABC site. If anyone is interested here's the <font color="red">linky-dinky</font> (http://http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/PollVault/story?id=1264205). Why didn't you include this? It would have saved me a lot of time. I wanted to read it. I did. It was, interesting.

Because I have firsthand knowledge/experience with polls, I tend to be skeptical. Like the DA who can't get a ham sandwich indicted, pollsters who can't get their clients' "side" presented favorably just ain't tryin'.

No, I'm not doubting the veracity of this poll. However, without knowledge of the questions posed (not just what they ask, but how), or the "universe," I tend to disregard polls.

The pollsters in this case (TNS), btw, are a marketing research company for businesses, which may or may not have a bearing on how they ran the poll.

As I said, I think your OP was a shot. Nothing more.

[Wes ManTooth]

your link does not seem to work, maybe its just my computer.

Though it does not seem to matter, I'am not a fan of polls also if it is Washington Post poll its even more meaningless.

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your link does not seem to work, maybe its just my computer.

Though it does not seem to matter, I'am not a fan of polls also if it is Washington Post poll its even more meaningless.

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Damn! Summbitches took it down! I swear, I was just there not 10 minutes ago! Just looked again to find the problem and it's gone.

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[andyfox]

My OP was quite short. Let me be more explicit.

A large portion of the American public apparently now thinks that the Bush administration has been less up front and honest with it than was the Clinton administration. This is quite surprising, in light of the fact that Bill Clinton was a pathological liar.

But this administration has brought us into two land wars and an ideological war on terror. Much of Bill Clinton's duplicity involved his personal lack of rectitude in his financial dealings and his sex life. Much of the Bush administration's duplicity involves its foreign policy, in particular, as it concerns those wars. We have hundreds of thousand of young men and women in harm's way as a result of that duplicity. The American people, in light of the Libby indictments, seems to be awakening to this fact.

[andyfox]

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/PollVault/story?id=1264205

[andyfox]

Also, according to the poll, just 15% of Americans believe the overall level of honesty and integrity in the federal government has improved under Bush. I find it remarkable that the vast majority of the American people don't see any improvement over the adminstration whose leader was impeached because of perjury.

[lehighguy]

Does that mean 54 percent think it rose?

[Utah]

Unfortunately, the general public is too stupid and uninformed to make that analysis. Heck, I would be curious to know how many people could answer a simple question like, "who is Harriet Meiers?". I wouldnt even want to try asking the public a question like, "What is Scooter Libby Charged with?" because the most common answer would be, "who the F is Scooter Libby?".

[andyfox]

For the sake or argument, let's assume you're correct. How badly would the Bush administration have to be at getting their case across to that uninformed and misinformed public to have it think that it's less open and honest than the man who looked them in the face, pointed his index finger, and said he didn't have sex with that woman? And who had the nickname "Slick Willie" even before he ran for national office?

[andyfox]

See my "Here's a Link" post.

[Utah]

"How badly would the Bush administration have to be at getting their case across to that uninformed and misinformed public to have it think that it's less open and honest than the man who looked them in the face, pointed his index finger, and said he didn't have sex with that woman? And who had the nickname "Slick Willie" even before he ran for national office?"

Pretty bad indeed. But, the public did elect him again and these types of polls often are a reflection of other factors. Also, the public thought Slick Willie was a liar. The public just didnt care. They liked the guy and they would forgive him for almost anything. Also, the public in general was too stupid to see the real charge against clinton and they bought into the, "it was only about sex" argument. As if that somehow negated perjury or the fact that Clinton was intentionally trying to destroy a young woman's life before she dropped the goods on him.