Monogomy/Polygymy

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
Hygomis Hogomous Women Monogomous

Hogomous Hygomis Men are Polygymous

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This was a stupid quote from an old James Mason movie. But I often think it's true. I think the natural state for women is to tie themselves to one man, while the natural state for a man is not to do this. It's interesting to me that social contracts typically call for monogomy, at least in our culture.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not calling for either men or women to cheat on their spouses. I think that if either a man or woman enters into an agreement, whether it's explicit as in marriage or implicit as in a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship, then they should honor the comittment. But why does this kind of monogomous relationship exist to begin with, and why is it assumed to be implicit in the case of the boyfriend/girlfriend?

How did monogomy start? Was it something created to alleviate social problems created by jealousy? Was it forced by women?

What does anyone else think this?

edit: And no I'm not trying to justify any affair I didn't just have or one that I'm not about to. So let's not even take this thread there. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[SackUp]

I think the quoted statement has far too many big words for OOT.

[7ontheline]

Geez, one BOMA and immediately it's all about polygamy. . .

[jakethebake]

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I think the quoted statement has far too many big words for OOT.

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Most of them are made up though.

[jakethebake]

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Geez, one BOMA and immediately it's all about polygamy. . .

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It was a Booya, but that had nothing to do with it. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[KaneKungFu123]

i blame charlton heston.

[diebitter]

No expert, but I suspect it goes waaaaaaaay back. Human children require a lot of work to rear, and would need both parents (I bet no one-parent families survived long in the old days). This would create an evolutionary pressure to prefer monogamy, and has some supporting evidence in the prolonged and continuing sexual life of humans (compared to say the mating seasons of other animals) - sex binds the couple.

I could be wrong though.

[jakethebake]

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No expert, but I suspect it goes waaaaaaaay back. Human children require a lot of work to rear...

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True, but in polygymous cultures, the women band together to help rear each other's children.

[7ontheline]

For a more serious answer. . .

I suspect it had something to do with social stability. Certainly a woman wants one man so he protects her. Typically men would want more than one woman, but maybe it works better if it's one for one? I imagine if too few men had too many women the woman-less men would become unruly.

[diebitter]

don't know about that. It tends to be not natural for females of many species to be interested in sex outside of 'heat', but in humans it is normal. In fact, not sure any females outside of humans are capable of orgasm even. This indicates human evolution favoured women enjoying sex, and one possible reason is that this bound couples together, and based on this, evolution favoured the binding of couples to raise children.

There's a lot of assumption apparently built into this, but I'm concatenating a lot of argument and scientific hypothesis here...

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
For a more serious answer. . .

I suspect it had something to do with social stability. Certainly a woman wants one man so he protects her. Typically men would want more than one woman, but maybe it works better if it's one for one? I imagine if too few men had too many women the woman-less men would become unruly.

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Possibly, but doesn't this screw with natural selection? If there's polygomy then only the best are breeding, while the less-desireable are not. And the less-desireable are probably to wimpy and/or stupid to be too unruly if the others slap them upside the head for it.

[jakethebake]

I don't get why the female orgasm would favor monogomy? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[gamblore99]

Yes. Men are naturally polygamous, and woman monogomous. From an evolutionary perspective men do best this way, as having kids for them is a very low investment (some semen), whereas for woman it is a much bigger commitment of eggs (eggs are much larger than sperm), carrying the child to term, as well as taking care of the child after birth.
Of course the offspring whose father takes care of him is also more likely to survive, so there is a benefit for sticking around and taking care of the kids. This kind of leads some men to sleep around and have as many kids as possible, and some other guys to want to raise a family and make sure a few of his offspring do very well, with the former usually having more desireable traits (looks, atheletic ability, IQ). This kind of leads woman to want to fuck the bad boy, and then later want a responsible caring partner to help her raise the kids.
Of course its more complicated than this and there are a whole bunch of other factors, but that is the gist of it.

edited for grammer

[trying2learn]

i had a sociology class once that had an entire section devoted to the concept of reproduction roles. basically, the most natural way for a male to reproduce is to spread as much seed as possible. the most natural way for a female to reproduce is to nurture/raise the family. one lends itself to monogamy more than the other. it wasn't a popular theory amongst the females in the class.

[gamblore99]

[ QUOTE ]
don't know about that. It tends to be not natural for females of many species to be interested in sex outside of 'heat', but in humans it is normal. In fact, not sure any females outside of humans are capable of orgasm even. This indicates human evolution favoured women enjoying sex, and one possible reason is that this bound couples together, and based on this, evolution favoured the binding of couples to raise children.

There's a lot of assumption apparently built into this, but I'm concatenating a lot of argument and scientific hypothesis here...

[/ QUOTE ]

Other animals can definitely have orgasms. Sex is very primal and natural, it encourages animals to reproduce and would be selected for.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
i had a sociology class once that had an entire section devoted to the concept of reproduction roles. basically, the most natural way for a male to reproduce is to spread as much seed as possible. the most natural way for a female to reproduce is to nurture/raise the family. one lends itself to monogamy more than the other. it wasn't a popular theory amongst the females in the class.

[/ QUOTE ]

Popular or not, I think they all realize it's true.

[diebitter]

[ QUOTE ]
Other animals can definitely have orgasms. Sex is very primal and natural, it encourages animals to reproduce and would be selected for.

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I did specifically say 'females' don't. Males of course do.

I think there's still debate about it. see this, for example. (http://www.world-sex-records.com/sex-303.htm)

[diebitter]

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I don't get why the female orgasm would favor monogomy? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

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If they enjoy sex, they will do it more, and keep the man around. Or something like that.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
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I don't get why the female orgasm would favor monogomy? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

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If they enjoy sex, they will do it more, and keep the man around. Or something like that.

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Hmmmmmmmm... I'm not sure I'm buying that one but ok it's a theory.

[diebitter]

I haven't got time for going into it all, but human babies are vulnerable in the extreme (it's all to do with the large brain size needing them to be born super-premature compared to other species), and need more than 1 parent to care for them for the several years they take to become relatively independent (outside civilisation). A monogomous man would provide better for HER child better than a polygamous man, so evolutionary pressure is on monogamy.

[Spladle Master]

I was considering making a post along these lines, along with an explanation of why it is relevant to my life in general at the moment. Instead I think I'll PM Dominic. My lust can only be satiated by a second column!

[diebitter]

Anyone interested in this mono/polygamy stuff, I think there's chapters in 'The Naked Ape' and 'The Selfish Gene' (if you don't mind pop-science) about these issues + related ones (eg cuckolding). I could be wrong though.

[Spladle Master]

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone interested in this mono/polygamy stuff, I think there's chapters in 'The Naked Ape' and 'The Selfish Gene' (if you don't mind pop-science) about these issues + related ones (eg cuckolding). I could be wrong though.

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I enjoyed the Selfish Gene and Naked Ape is on my to-read list. I'm informed about the subject in general, I just have a question regarding the situation that I find myself in.

[diebitter]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Anyone interested in this mono/polygamy stuff, I think there's chapters in 'The Naked Ape' and 'The Selfish Gene' (if you don't mind pop-science) about these issues + related ones (eg cuckolding). I could be wrong though.

[/ QUOTE ]
I enjoyed the Selfish Gene and Naked Ape is on my to-read list. I'm informed about the subject in general, I just have a question regarding the situation that I find myself in.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is it serious sexual issues, or does it really pertain to evolutionary human biology? Dom for first, post here for second, maybe?

[Spladle Master]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Anyone interested in this mono/polygamy stuff, I think there's chapters in 'The Naked Ape' and 'The Selfish Gene' (if you don't mind pop-science) about these issues + related ones (eg cuckolding). I could be wrong though.

[/ QUOTE ]
I enjoyed the Selfish Gene and Naked Ape is on my to-read list. I'm informed about the subject in general, I just have a question regarding the situation that I find myself in.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is it serious sexual issues, or does it really pertain to evolutionary human biology? Dom for first, post here for second, maybe?

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First. Was going to invite discussion on the subject in general but Jake beat me to it.

[jaydub]

read the red queen. it answers these and other related questions

http://www.exn.ca/Stories/1997/12/04/02.asp

[w_alloy]

From the article linked above:

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In human societies, monogamy prevails in areas where resources are distributed relatively equally, says Komers. That is, where the disparity between the rich and poor is small.

One lone male can't "defend" enough resources (territory) for more than one female.

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There are obviouslt a ton of factors, but I think most link back to this. Social norms are actually the number one reason I think, but but the cause for these norms originally can be mostly linked to this.