Interesting Hand, Table Coach Snapped

[Jorge10]

I got 5 /images/graemlins/spade.gif5 /images/graemlins/club.gif on the cutoff, its .50/1. A guy raises from middle position, table coach calls, I call, BB calls.

Its a pretty loose table.

Flop comes: 10 /images/graemlins/heart.gif5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif4 /images/graemlins/club.gif(4.25 in middle)

Preflop raiser bets, table coach folds, I call, BB folds.

Turn: 6 /images/graemlins/club.gif

Middle position guy bets out, I raise, He makes it 3 bets, I cap.

River is a 9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

He bets out, I raise because I screwed up bad, He just calls.

Anyway he shows me 10 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif10 /images/graemlins/club.gif

I lose to an over set, and the table coach snaps at me and starts typing in the chat box that I suck, which I dont dispute as im barely getting the hang of limit holdem, but I was wondering was it that bad of a play?

Also for future reference, what did I do wrong?

I think I should have called the third bet on the turn.

Also maybe he was wrong, most table coaches suck.

Well the reason for this post is exactly that. Was it wrong how I played it or should I have told the table coach to go kill himself? and if I played it wrong why?

Thanks

[Aaron W.]

The preflop cold-call isn't so hot. You would rather see three players voluntarily enter the pot to play catch-a-set (raiser + two callers, or a limper + raiser + cold-caller...).

Not raising the flop isn't so good either. You shouldn't be slowplaying flopped sets in raised pots.

Turn cap is good. He could easily be overplaying a hand like AA/KK.

River raise is fine, but just call a 3-bet if it happens.

[Paxosmotic]

Just raise the flop, don't get too fancy with it. I fully advocate this preflop call.

[Jorge10]

[ QUOTE ]
The preflop cold-call isn't so hot. You would rather see three players voluntarily enter the pot to play catch-a-set (raiser + two callers, or a limper + raiser + cold-caller...).


[/ QUOTE ]

I like that advice, but there was always 4 players per pot even if it was capped, which happened a few times. I wasnt sure if logic applied to the table, but I dont know.

Edit: Thanks for the advice though, ill use it from now on.

[ArturiusX]

Dont worry, you played fine. I often raise the flop though in this position.

[Aaron W.]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The preflop cold-call isn't so hot. You would rather see three players voluntarily enter the pot to play catch-a-set (raiser + two callers, or a limper + raiser + cold-caller...).


[/ QUOTE ]

I like that advice, but there was always 4 players per pot even if it was capped, which happened a few times. I wasnt sure if logic applied to the table, but I dont know.

Edit: Thanks for the advice though, ill use it from now on.

[/ QUOTE ]

You should be more concerned about the postflop tendencies of the table. If you've got 4 players getting to the turn consistently, the cold-call flies a little bit better. SSH suggests (p.67) that 5 is the magic preflop number, not 4.

raise flop

otherwise nh

Basically don't ever listen to table coaches. They pretty much always are bad poker players and don't know what they're talking about. If the blinds are loose this preflop call is fine IMO.

[pokernicus]

It's hard not to lose money in a set-over-set situation.
1 - I'm not a big fan of the pre-flop call. To call with these small pairs you need enough people in the hand to get right odds for trying to hit a set on the flop (about 7.5:1). And, of course, that 7.5 should be slightly discounted because you may hit a set and still lose (as I'm sure you learned the hard way in this hand).

2 - I raise the flop. There are flush and straight draws on the board, and you should make it expensive for people to see the next card.

[TomBrooks]

FLOP: Raise the flop, your hand is vulnerable to flushes and straights. It will also help establish where your at vs. MP. If MP three bets, cap.

Hand plays differently after that. If you get c/r on the turn for instance, you might go into call down mode from there fearing TT. (probably not a straight as MP raised preflop.)

You can't get away from this hand anyway. You might even keep pumping the turn before you slow down. You will usually lose a lot of bets with set over set and that's usually the way it should be.

PS: Preflop, I usually like three people in before I call a raise with 55.

[DCWildcat]

Might wanna edit the flop to show SBs, not BBs, since the decisions on the flop are relative to the size of a SB.

4 way raised pot = raising on the flop. Had this been an unraised pot, a flop call wouldn't have been bad. Other than that, you're fine, and I'll lay 3-1 you're also better than the table coach.

I would have played it the exact same way that you did. It seems to me if you are going to play 55 then you got to push when you hit a set. Most flops will contain and over card. Also there are numerous people who will raise with top pair top kicker or worse at low limit tables.

[trainslayer]

fold preflop

raise the flop, 2 draws, call the 3bet

call down

i suck too

[trainslayer]

[ QUOTE ]
i suck too

[/ QUOTE ]

i shoulda left the "too" off /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[kai]

[ QUOTE ]
raise the flop, 2 draws, call the 3bet

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with raising the flop. I dont agree with calling the 3 bet. Sets are pretty rare, I think if you slow down that fast you will regret not getting more bets in a lot of the time.

I suck too tho... /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

so im probably wrong

[SoftcoreRevolt]

There is everything right with capping.

[Donkey Kong]

I'd personally fold this preflop. 55 is one of my biggest losers according to PT (45k hands), so I've tightened up. I try to play low PP's mostly in late position (raising first in and limping after a couple of limpers), or in MP if the table is especially loose or otherwise predictable. I'm not sure if I'm even remotely close to correct strategy, though.

Raise the flop and cap it if 3-bet

If he starts donking the turn I'd probably go into calldown mode (but that might be weak in some situations, like LAG-tables).