Presto agression

[Diplomat]

Same old 20-40, being made good by a whacko in seat three who is raising blind utg every hand.

I get delt 55 utg and think for a second. The game has been loose, 5-6 players to a flop, but usually for at least one raise pre-flop. I'm doing fairly well though, and decide to make a loose call. The next two players call, and the whacko (now on the button) shouts "RAISE'R UP YA!" and, well...raises. Both blinds call, I call. Now one of the limpers 3-bets, and the whacko caps it. Both blinds call. I shake my head and call, praying for a 5 on the flop. Everyone else calls too.

Flop is 6 /forums/images/icons/club.gif 5 /forums/images/icons/club.gif 2 /forums/images/icons/spade.gif. The small blinds checks, the big blind bets, I raise, both limpers cold-call, the nut three-bets, the small blind folds, big blind cold calls, I cap, all call.

Turn is the 2 /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif . The big blind checks, I bet, the limpers fold, the whacko "just calls" and the big blind calls.

River is 9 /forums/images/icons/heart.gif . The big blind checks, I bet, the whacko folds, and the big blind checkraises.

Call or three-bet? Anyone play the hand differently (mostly post flop, I know pre-flop is very borderline)?

Thanks in advance for comments.

-Diplomat

[Billy LTL]

I play it exactly the same as you, and I reraise on the river. Hope you won.

I don't know why you question your flop play. And the preflop? I don't think your play there is questionable at all.

Billy

[Lee Jones]

[Ai-ya, rgp-speak has made its way over here]

Actually, I don't mind the little pair even capped. (1) you're routinely getting your 5-6 way action, (2) look at the action you got after you flopped your set, (3) it's not your fault, you paid it on the installment plan.

On the flop and turn, you put in all the chips they'd let you - excellent.

The river check-raise. [Damn, I've started this sentence three times, I'm back to my original thought, I think]. Let's say the BB is reasonable - what can he have?

[A2s (maybe clubs), 87s/o, 22, 66, 99]

There's only two A2s's left. 12 87's if they don't have to be suited. 14 hands you beat.
On the downside: six 66's, six 99's, and one 22. 13 hands that beat you.

And without knowing the BB, I can't weight any of those hands more heavily than the others. Even if I did, and even if I had the cool to do the above computation on the fly (I don't), it's meschuggah to do laser measurements in the middle of a knife fight.

In short, I make you almost exactly even money, and given that you're likely to look at a four-bet if you're beat, I'd call.

Regards, Lee

[Diplomat]

Hi Lee,

the big blind sat down and posted the big blind in this hand for his first hand, and I had never seen him before...and when he said "raise" he had an Australian accent. That's all I know.

-Diplomat

[elysium]

hi diplomat
good post. this is one situation when calling from UTG with 55 is ok. because of the maniac behind you.

remember that when you have good aggressive conditions and a multi-way table, where you know a lot of players will see the flop, and likely raise somewhere along the way, you still have the draw-back of minimal info.

the small pocket pairs need that last ingredient of information so that when you do hit your set on the flop, you will know what to do. that little 'gee, i flopped the dang thing, what do i do?' costs a lot when the flop misses everyone but you, and you're not so sure if they will call if you bet, or bet if you check. simple not being sure about what to do is negative ev. and with the pocket pair, it's always not being sure about betting or checking. from LP you would like a lot of callers to you, but if everyone checked to you and you bet, you will still likely get called or raised. your opponents think you are betting on weakness shown. so from LP position, with a set, you're in total control. that total control-ishness vs. having your set beaten by a straight, etc. is positive ev. that's where the positive ev is, right there. forget about all this other.

'gee, what do i do now?'-ishness vs. having your set beaten by a straight, etc. is negative ev. and strips off the set's window dressing. that's why you see many card-room patrons without a shirt on their back after playing a set from out of position. they checked because they thought no one would call. and they were right! they bet because they thought a check-around was possible. and again, they were right! in the first case, everyone checked around; in the second case, everyone folded. the holder of the set walks away from the hand believeing 'i was right! i played it perfectly!'. but notice that his perfect play here is still negative ev. also notice that a player who plays perfectly desires to play perfectly again, and again, and again.

but this last small obstacle here is removed by the maniac behind you. and i just have a feeling here diplomat that you would have entered in with the 55 whether there was a maniac in or not, because you didn't use him to gain info, the only thing that you're lacking.

you got in a lot of money on the flop, but notice that you will not knock out anyone on the flop by raising so your raise can only be to get more money in the pot. a better way to do that here is to call the BB, have the maniac raise for you AS THOUGH YOU WERE IN LP POSITION, instead or reraising for a strong blind. the strong blind will not 4-bet, no way. he will call the maniac's 3-bet. but the strong blind will call or reraise the maniac's raise, and thereby provide you with the additional info.

if the strong blind reraises, your work is through on this round of betting. but if the blind only calls,....i don't like reraising the maniac. remember that the BB bet out into a large field. if you only call, there is still a small chance that the MP reraiser will reraise the maniac, but more importantly, even if you knew that a call by you would essentially close the round, diplomat, say what you will, i like calling to preserve the BB aggressiveness.

if the BB comes out firing on the turn, you can sit back and be a super-charger if needed. if the BB fires out, call and let the maniac and the BB trap you and anyone else. then if the BB calls the maniacs raise, super-charge it.

i like the way the flop worked out, but diplomat, the problem with raising the BB is that you do not yet have enough info on the maniac, and you risk folding out the players between you and the maniac. you also risk turning this fantastic multi-way aggressive table into passive callers on the expensive rounds when you hold a fantastic hidden trips. and yes, you may also consider that with a straight and flush draw on board, you may want to cool the action on the turn if a bad card comes off. but what you really want is exactly what you have. you have a dream hand. you have an aggressive BB who is willing to provide the spark for the maniac's engine. when ever you have this ideal condition, do not douse the BB spark with a bucket full of gasoline on the cheap round. yes, you get more gas in there, but it floods the maniacs engine, and now you have to kick start the dang thing on the turn.

without an aggressive BB, you must bet out. you must be that spark. but remember something diplomat; in the world of poker, it's a lot better to be a super-charger than a spark plug.