25NL KJs, I gots 3 Jacks and we've got big stacks...

[lautzutao]

Uh, felt a bit lost here. Comment on all streets is appreciated, since I probably botched the whole [censored] hand up /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Villian is 25/2/.8 over 87 hands. I have a note that he's bet/folded flops twice. Other than that he's seems pretty solid...



Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

Button ($23.30)
SB ($25)
BB ($12.05)
UTG ($10.80)
UTG+1 ($23.30)
Hero ($61.40)
MP2 ($19.90)
MP3 ($44.80)
CO ($63.70)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.10.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls $0.25, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP3 calls $0.25, CO calls $0.25, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, BB checks.

Flop: ($1.10) J/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets $0.25</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to $1</font>, BB folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $3</font>, MP3 folds, CO calls $2.

Turn: ($8.35) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $8</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to $20</font>, Hero ???

[Hattifnatt]

Preflop - good
Flop - I bet out pot
Turn - Fold to his raise, if he's got the flush and you are drawing him out it will be tough to get any more money from him unless you hit the king.

[afreeman]

Bet more on the flop. Barring that, raise more on the flop.

There is a flush draw and possibly a straight draw on the flop and your jack will be pretty obvious. I think you want to take this down on the flop or at least charge those draws enough to make them unprofitable. As its played, you were giving villain about 2 1/2-1 on his call, which is enough for him to profitably call. What you really want is for an Ax or weaker jack to stick around while the flush and straight draws fold.

Since villain's stats put him into the classic loose-passive fish catagory, I think you have to give him credit for the flush here and fold the turn.

[Malachii]

That's a pretty loose limp for full ring considering your position.

Flop: Bet pot. If you get raised, call and lead turn.

As played: Push this turn. Sometimes he'll have AJ, but 25$ NL players really overplay open trips. He could definitely have JT or QJ.

[ QUOTE ]
As played: Push this turn. Sometimes he'll have AJ, but 25$ NL players really overplay open trips. He could definitely have JT or QJ.

[/ QUOTE ]

Or.. I don't know... a FLUSH?


-fop

[NYCNative]

Between the chance that villain is slowplaying his weaker trips and the redraw to the boat, I don't see a problem with a push.

That said, I lead the flop hard.

[Malachii]

[ QUOTE ]

Or.. I don't know... a FLUSH?


[/ QUOTE ]
Doh! Didn't notice that.

[Allinlife]

[ QUOTE ]
Hero ???

[/ QUOTE ]
folds with dicipline

I push. Worst possible scenario is he has AJ...but I'll ignore that.

It's more likely he has a weaker jack...and if he has the flush, then you still have 9 outs.

this is a pretty easy fold. You showed a lot of strength by c/ring the flop, and Villain then raises on the turn with a third club. That means a couple things: 1. Hero has made his trips pretty obvious; and 2. Villain doesn't seem to mind. Villain either has you drawing dead or to 9 outs. Either way fold.

You may be ahead here sometimes, but you're behind way more than ahead. And limping K-J from MP in full ring is not good...

[Rockatansky]

Villain's AF is 0.8 - so I doubt that he was raising a paired flop with nothing but a flush draw. He sure looks like he's got the case Jack in his hand, and Hero is ahead of the vast majority of jack hands that Villain could hold. I think I c/c turn, block / value bet river.

[amoeba]

bet the pot on the flop. checkraise makes it really obvious what you have. if raised, 3 bet all in. theres 1 hand likely better than you and its unlikely they limped with it although always possible.

as played, check call on the turn. since its not possible, fold the turn against bet and raise.

[amoeba]

9 outs with 1 card to come sucks.

turn is easy fold.

push is really bad.

[Rockatansky]

[ QUOTE ]
9 outs with 1 card to come sucks.

turn is easy fold.

push is really bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you think that Villain was raising with a flush draw on the flop?

[amoeba]

against .25 cent bet yes its possible. why would he wait until the turn to raise his jack instead of reraising on the flop?

[Rockatansky]

[ QUOTE ]
against .25 cent bet yes its possible. why would he wait until the turn to raise his jack instead of reraising on the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I agree with both of us if that makes sense. Villain shows K/images/graemlins/club.gif-J/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif-J/images/graemlins/club.gif, or J/images/graemlins/club.gif-10/images/graemlins/club.gif most of the time here. I think he didn't re-raise the flop because it was clear that Hero also had a J, and Villain had a pretty good flush draw.

So I take back what I said earlier - I think your boat outs (with the exception of the Kings) are only good for a chop, so I'd fold to the turn raise.

[amoeba]

with such deep stacks, I much prefer a turn check call.

[afreeman]

[ QUOTE ]
Villain shows K/images/graemlins/club.gif-J/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif-J/images/graemlins/club.gif, or J/images/graemlins/club.gif-10/images/graemlins/club.gif most of the time here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Jack of clubs is already on the board.

[Rockatansky]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Villain shows K/images/graemlins/club.gif-J/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif-J/images/graemlins/club.gif, or J/images/graemlins/club.gif-10/images/graemlins/club.gif most of the time here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Jack of clubs is already on the board.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow - I no read so goot. I'm going to waffle again and go back to my original line - c/c turn, block / value bet river. Maybe Villain is raising a combo flush / gutshot draw on the flop, but I think he usually is holding a J in his hand.

[PokerCat69]

Playing KJs from MP in an unraised pot is fine. Couple tight-ass players are faulting this, but jeez its well within the top 4% hands.

Actually I'd be more inclined to raise rather then limp.

[lautzutao]

The c/r was a mistake, but I get greedy in this game for some reason. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif Figured with him calling he either had the FD or an Ace. AJ was not a concern once the turn card hit because I was now beat by any of those 2 hands /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

As far as the turn bet, shoulda thrown out a feeler correct? Or was the pot-size bet correct here? I think I got a little overzealous here with this pot bet because this seems like a WA-WB situation...

[lautzutao]

A turn check/call after my check/raise on the flop? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

Can you explain why you'd do this? And would you be going to showdown if villian is pot-betting this turn?