Limit Hi-lo Pineapple discards.

[Phat Mack]

The game is 5 10 Crazy Pineapple hi-lo, eight or die, throw one after the flop. Nine handed, some OK players in other formats, but mainly wild and clueless. 6-8 see the flop, usually with a raise thrown in.

I have little limit pineapple experience, and almost no hi-lo pineapple experience, but have been playing hi-lo games for a lot of years.

Here is a composite hand constructed from several that occurred during a 7-hour session. I'd be on the button with 2 /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif, 3 /forums/images/icons/club.gif, 5 /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif . Flop would come A /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif, 7 /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif, 8 /forums/images/icons/spade.gif . Do I keep the nut low, or do I keep a working low with a weak flush draw?

In the three times this happened to me, I kept the flush draw (scoop is the name of the game), hit the flush and scooped. My reasoning was a) there's no protection from counterfeiting, so nut low wasn't that strong on the flop, b) 80% of the players thought that 6-5 was a good low holding, so there wasn't much point in obsessing about the nuts, and c) a flush appearing on the board didn't slow anyone with top pair down.

Has anybody given this any thought? Was my success solid play or luck?

[Graham]

Don't know why I'm responding to a Pineapple post, but here goes...

I'm surprised you got away with making baby flushes. I'd expect you to often be looking at a bigger flush after putting a chunk of chips in. Doesn't sound exciting, but I'd have gone the other way, kept the low, hope it held up and jammed the turn for the big bet value.

That's probably less than 2 cents worth.

G

[beetman]

My experience is on par with yours, but I think this decision is very clear-cut. When one is only dealt 3 cards as opposed to 4 like in Omaha, having the nut low as opposed to a 2nd or 3rd nut low is worth less, so I would strongly prefer a weak flush draw and a 3rd nut low draw to a dry nut low draw. I could be wrong, but that's the decision I'd make based on a lot of experience with split pot games and my own intuition.

[Phat Mack]

I'm surprised you got away with making baby flushes.

I agree. This was my problem with the whole idea: I would never draw to a five-high flush in hold 'em, but here I am doing it in pineapple - a game where my opponents have an extra card. To make matters even worse, I don't think anyone at the table would feel any trepidation about drawing for high when there was a made low on the flop. If they were on flush draws, they wouldn't have limited their draws to the nuts.

On a couple of these hands, I was ditching the nut low for the second nut, and also had a wheel draw on one of them, so the lows weren't that bad on all the hands. I think I'll crunch some numbers and see how often nut low is out here in a pineapple game.

[Jimbo]

This will be short. You played it perfectly each time.

[Buzz]

Hi Mack - "Here is a composite hand constructed from several that occurred during a 7-hour session. I'd be on the button with 2 , 3 , 5 . Flop would come A , 7 , 8 . Do I keep the nut low, or do I keep a working low with a weak flush draw?"

Just as in Omaha-8, a general principle to be followed is to go for the scoop.

It is noteworthy that an opponent is much less likely to have the nuts in CP-8 as in O-8. Playing a baby flush and the fourth nut low in Omaha-8 is almost asking to get whip-sawed and end up with a losing second best hand both ways. However, in CP-8, the fourth nut low might end up being good, even if the turn or river is not a trey (which would counterfeit deuce-trey but not deuce-five). Also the nut flush is not as likely in CP-8 as in O-8 and thus your baby flush, should you make one, though dangerous, has a better chance of winning than in O-8.

The trouble with playing nut lows (or any lows) after the flop in this game is that they frequently get counterfeited. There's just no way, as in Omaha-8, that you can have counterfeit protection. Obviously you still like deuce-trey after a flop of A-7-8. But if a deuce or trey comes on the turn or river, you may be finished, and it may become too expensive for you to play, especially since you are only going for half the pot, if an opponent puts you on deuce-trey as a starting combination.

With three flush cards on the board, flopping a baby flush would be dangerous because someone is likely to keep an ace or a king (or even worse!) in the flush suit, hoping for a fourth flush card on the turn or river. Drawing for the baby flush seems safer, in a way, than flopping the baby flush - because an opponent needs to have been dealt two or three cards in the flush suit. That (obviously) happens more often in CP-8 than in high/low hold 'em, but less often than in Omaha-8.

"Has anybody given this any thought?"

Yes, but it has been a while since I concentrated on it.

"Was my success solid play or luck?"

Both.

Just my opinion.

Buzz