1-Rebuy Strategy

[Sam T.]

I know there is no answer on this one, but how do y'all approach the 1 rebuy/1 add-on tournaments? You can't just go nuts as in an unlimited, but do you play looser than a normal tournament? Do you take the rebuy right away?

[Proofrock]

i don't know about anybody else, but I rebuy immediately and treat it as a freeze-out with deeper stacks.

-J.A.

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i don't know about anybody else, but I rebuy immediately and treat it as a freeze-out with deeper stacks.

-J.A.

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[valenzuela]

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i don't know about anybody else, but I rebuy immediately and treat it as a freeze-out with deeper stacks.

-J.A.

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[Sam T.]

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i don't know about anybody else, but I rebuy immediately and treat it as a freeze-out with deeper stacks.

-J.A.

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Okay, that's kind of what I thought. Just making sure.

[pryor15]

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i don't know about anybody else, but I rebuy immediately and treat it as a freeze-out with deeper stacks.

-J.A.

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either that or i play straight and save the rebuy for the times my aces get cracked. depends on my mood.

[SumZero]

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i don't know about anybody else, but I rebuy immediately and treat it as a freeze-out with deeper stacks.

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This seems to be conventional wisdom, and it is what I do to. But if the rebuy is not at a discount (I.e., same price as the starting chips, and same number of chips), then doesn't it make sense that if your tournament chips are worth less the more you have (I.e., the first 1000 chips are worth more than the second 1000 chips) that it implies you should not rebuy right away?

[A_Junglen]

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i don't know about anybody else, but I rebuy immediately and treat it as a freeze-out with deeper stacks.

-J.A.

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[flyingmoose]

I don't disagree with the consensus of the thread, but I'm surprised no discussion has broken out about this. These tournaments usually allow one rebuy and one add on; there must be SOME value in increasing your chance at reaching the add-on stage.

[ansky451]

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i don't know about anybody else, but I rebuy immediately and treat it as a freeze-out with deeper stacks.

-J.A.

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[madmisha]

If you are better than average player in the field, you can find EV+ situations to use them, either to bully smaller stacks or to double up against a poor player with a stack larger than the buy in, this should outweigh your ability to avoid gambler's ruin by rebuying, but depends again on your skill versus the field

[koolmoe]

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But if the rebuy is not at a discount (I.e., same price as the starting chips, and same number of chips), then doesn't it make sense that if your tournament chips are worth less the more you have (I.e., the first 1000 chips are worth more than the second 1000 chips) that it implies you should not rebuy right away?

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I would think this is outweighed by the fact that if you do not rebuy immediately, you may not be able to rebuy at all.

[SumZero]

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If you are better than average player in the field, you can find EV+ situations to use them, either to bully smaller stacks or to double up against a poor player with a stack larger than the buy in, this should outweigh your ability to avoid gambler's ruin by rebuying, but depends again on your skill versus the field

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But it depends on the field size, payout structure, if the field rebuys, and how much better you are (I.e., better than average isn't always good enough. Better than the rake also isn't always good enough). Let's imagine a case where you are playing a 10 person tournament where everybody buys-in for $1000+$100 and gets 1000 chips (and let's say everyone has the option of doing a $1000/T1000 rebuy). Let's further say that the rest of the field is equally good, while you have a 25% advantage over them. That is your skill with 100 chips is equal to their skill with 125 chips, etc. So at the start of the tournament it is like they all have 1000 chips and you have 1250 chips.

Let us say that it is a standard 50%, 30%, 20% payout. At the start of the tournament, using ICM with your +25% advantage:

If no one rebuys: You have an EV of $95.84 for an ROI of 8.7%.

If everyone, including you, rebuys: You have an EV of $291.68 for an ROI of 13.9%.

If everyone but you rebuys: You have an EV of $173.25 for an ROI of 15.8%.

If only you rebuys: You have an EV of $55.77 for an ROI of 2.7%.

If half the field (5 other players) rebuys and you do to: You have an EV of $233.02 for an ROI of 11.1%.

If half the field (5 other players) rebuys and you do not: You have an EV of $161.22 for an ROI of 14.7%.

So overall you actually do best (I.e., best ROI) in this situation, where you were a whole 25% better than the field per chip which was good enough for an 8.7% ROI after rake if this was a freeze out, when you do not make the mistake of rebuying and as many of your opponents do make this mistake. If you are willing to sacrifice ROI for EV (in other words seek greater risk of ruin for greater rewards at a worse return on investment) then everybody rebuying is the best situation (which makes sense since this makes it like a twice as expensive tournament with half the rake). But if none of your opponents are rebuying you make a serious error in both EV and ROI if you are the only one to rebuy.

[Exitonly]

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But if none of your opponents are rebuying you make a serious error in both EV and ROI if you are the only one to rebuy.

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not that this isn't necesarily true, but all your work for a 10 person tournament, can't really compare to a ~1000 person tournament.

[SumZero]

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But if none of your opponents are rebuying you make a serious error in both EV and ROI if you are the only one to rebuy.

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not that this isn't necesarily true, but all your work for a 10 person tournament, can't really compare to a ~1000 person tournament.

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True. But no one really has a good workable model of how to model the value of a certain chip stack in the midst of a ~1000 person tournament that isn't winner take all (and even the winner take all cEV = $EV isn't universally accepted). So it makes sense (at least to me) to check out the smaller tournament.

And for me, the most common rebuy tournaments I play in have between 88 and 150 players in them, so only 1 order of magnitude bigger than the single table example. And generally in these tournaments only about half the field rebuys right away.