Someone kill me now....call or fold???

[rockythecat99]

PokerStars Game #2924080166: Tournament #14028460, Hold'em No Limit - Level III (25/50) - 2005/10/29 - 18:25:22 (ET)
Table '14028460 15' Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: rockythecat (2535 in chips)
Seat 2: kevinsts (2210 in chips)
Seat 3: thecortster (1930 in chips)
Seat 4: CHEKdezNUTS (3970 in chips)
Seat 5: hockeypond (4055 in chips)
Seat 6: CrazyMac (2285 in chips)
Seat 7: Shifty1768 (5575 in chips)
Seat 8: hardluckcash (2445 in chips)
Seat 9: BobbyFi (2515 in chips)
CrazyMac: posts small blind 25
Shifty1768: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to rockythecat [4d Ad]
hardluckcash: folds
BobbyFi: folds
rockythecat: calls 50
kevinsts: folds
thecortster: folds
CHEKdezNUTS: folds
hockeypond: folds
CrazyMac: calls 25
Shifty1768: checks
*** FLOP *** [Jd 8d 7d]
CrazyMac: bets 100
Shifty1768: folds
rockythecat: calls 100
*** TURN *** [Jd 8d 7d] [7s]
CrazyMac: checks
rockythecat: bets 150
CrazyMac: raises 700 to 850
rockythecat: calls 700
*** RIVER *** [Jd 8d 7d 7s] [8h]
CrazyMac: bets 1285 and is all-in
rockythecat: ????


Sorry converter doesn't work for me. Table has been tight. Who folds and who calls and why?

[woodguy]

Converter worked for me....are you selecting "2+2" in the top left hand corner?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Hero (t2535)
MP2 (t2210)
MP3 (t1930)
CO (t3970)
Button (t4055)
SB (t2285)
BB (t5575)
UTG (t2445)
UTG+1 (t2515)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls t50, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t150) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets t100</font>, BB folds, Hero calls t100.

Turn: (t350) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t150</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises to t850</font>, Hero calls t700.

River: (t2050) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

Final Pot: t2050

Jam the turn.....fold the river.

But that's really easy for me to say "jam the turn" when I see the river.

If you have time, delete your post, then repost it questioning the turn after the raise.

Regards,
Woodguy

[rockythecat99]

thanks wood no I didnt select 2+2 thats my fault sorry. I didn't want to jam the turn as I almost puked when he reraised me the table had been so tight that I put him at the very least on that 7 and at worst I was beat. I decided to call and reevaluate on the the river when that 8 came yuck.

[woodguy]

Still have time to delete it?... because I think the turn decision is interesting, especially without the knowledge of the river.

You could also PM Lloyd or another mod to delete it and repost.

This is an interesting situation.

Oh, also, open limping a small suited A is usually not good (rarely get paid if you make your hand, or get tied to an A etc..), if you are opening the pot, its best to raise if you are going to play it.

Regards,
Woodguy

[MLG]

[ QUOTE ]
Oh, also, open limping a small suited A is usually not good (rarely get paid if you make your hand, or get tied to an A etc..), if you are opening the pot, its best to raise if you are going to play it.


[/ QUOTE ]

I don't agree with that. You get paid plenty if you hit. I limp suited As all the time and some of those times I check fold A high flops.

[woodguy]

[ QUOTE ]

I don't agree with that. You get paid plenty if you hit. I limp suited As all the time and some of those times I check fold A high flops.

[/ QUOTE ]

But you are usually OOP and it can get ugly fast.

I default to the open raise so I'm in control on the flop. Especially making a cont-bet on a 2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif board, giving me the option of putting in the third raise on the flop, or seeing the river for free and getting paid when it hits since my flop bet looked to be pushing the flush draw out.

I see your point though.

Regards,
Woodguy

[MLG]

Here's the thing with these marginal preflop raises, when the stacks are deep they're fine for balancing purposes (just like limping is fine). When stacks are short, say under 30x or so raising is important with these hands to steal blinds (or take them with continuation bets on the flop). In the middle though, like 30-50x or so it becomes really tough raising these hands. A raise and a call puts enough money in the pot to make it worth fighting over for many players (especially if they are shorter than you and can easily push the flop) and you put yourself into really tough spots. Folding them is fine too, but certainly not mandatory since you're generally deep enough to have the implied odds if you play well. Thats why I end up limping more hands there as opposed to raising. Consequently its also the stack depth im most likely to limp with a big hand again for balancing purposes.

[woodguy]

I see what you are saying, as raising can lead to building a pot OOP, that can be tougher to get away from.

I still think that raising me affords me more options on the flop, especially when I flop a draw.

Regards,
Woodguy

[MLG]

[ QUOTE ]
I still think that raising me affords me more options on the flop, especially when I flop a draw.



[/ QUOTE ]

You can lead 3-bet all-in even when you weren't the preflop raiser you know /images/graemlins/grin.gif. Trust me, I'm a leadaholic.

[woodguy]

[ QUOTE ]
You can lead 3-bet all-in even when you weren't the preflop raiser you know . Trust me, I'm a leadaholic.

[/ QUOTE ]

A little deep in this example to 3 bet all in .....oh, wait....I've seen you play. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

I also really like hitting my flush on the river with a free card and being lead into. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Regards,
Darcy