$11 - First hand of tourney, large PP (JJ-AA) Do I call the push?

[Thalum]

Party $11 - I 4 table and this happened on 2 of the 4 tables at the same time, on the first hand of the tourney

Table 1: JJ, I raise to 75, villain re-raised to 200ish, I push, he calls.

Table 2: QQ, I raise to 75, villain pushes all in, I call.

What SHOULD I be doing in this situation? What does the villain have? Ak, AQs at worst probably, but a PP is most likely, hopefully lower then mine, but could be anything from 1010 to AA.

I know I can still get away from the second hand, as I have only 75 chips in the pot when he pushes, whereas I can just call his 200 and see a flop in the first hand.

Do I risk that I am beat already and fold these, or try and double up at the begining of the tourney and try and parlay that into a big lead in chips?

Thanks in advance for the thoughts.

Oh, and In hand 1 villain had AA and in hand 2 villain had KK, both times I did not improve and lost.

[Simplistic]

hand 1, call and push any non overs flop
hand 2, call all-in

Table 1; Hand One: Definately a fold. Easy. Blinds are really low and with retarded Party Poker players they can have anything like KQ - KJ - QJ - K10 and they are far too likely to hit their overcard. Fold IMHO!

Table 2; Hand Two: Harder decision. With the villain pushing allin again he is likey to have anything from KQ and on down like in Hand One. This early I dont know if I want to take a coinflip for my whole stack. Thats just me tho, I am on the more conservative side. I fold in this situation as well since you only have 75 committed and there is no reason to risk your whole stack on a push coin flip.

[rbear]

hand 1, fold to reraise

hand 2, call

[Simplistic]

great idea. fold incorrectly

[ QUOTE ]
great idea. fold incorrectly

[/ QUOTE ]

Im guessing that you are talking about Hand Two.

Why is folding incorrect here? Okay yeah I can see you making a case for calling the allin. Sure even I can make a case for calling the allin. But think outside the box here for a moment. Say you fold. This is the 11s. You can still outplay on the bubble very easily. Not too mention the OP did not provide any reads that he had on the player from previous SNGs played, etc. You can definately make a case for folding as well.

Sorry if it sounded like I was going off, but you can make a case for both sides of the argument. I just dont like extremely arrogant people.

Sorry.

[runner4life7]

why wait to outplay on the bubble if you an get chips here? If that is your mindset why play any hands the first few levels at an 11 other than AA and even then why AA you can just out play them later. It's called expected value. Make money not just on the bubble but earlier in the game.

[Simplistic]

actually hand 1, if you your hand range for the opponent is as wide as KJ, KQ, AK etc. you would be incorrect in folding as a favourite.

but considering you're easily dominated by overpairs then perhaps you're more correct. but don't be afraid to flip early in a tournament. it's as easy as clicking the next open tournament.

[ QUOTE ]
why wait to outplay on the bubble if you an get chips here? If that is your mindset why play any hands the first few levels at an 11 other than AA and even then why AA you can just out play them later. It's called expected value. Make money not just on the bubble but earlier in the game.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is very correct. And most of the time I am probably going to call the allin with QQ as well...

It was just that I was "trying" too think of the hand and the situation from a different approach. LOL! Please forgive me. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Your right tho, like I said earlier... I am probably calling that allin with QQ in a heartbeat. I just wont like running into a King high flop when my donk opponent is holding KQ-KJ-K10 or crap like that. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[runner4life7]

forgiven /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Thalum]

Thanks for the replies. Basically it sounds like it comes down to the range of hands I can put the villain on. In the original post, I was thinking AK, AQs, and pocket pairs from 10's to A's, but some of you have mentioned crap from KQ-K10 even! If I knew that he had KQ-K10 I would definately call these all in's no sweat, it is the larger pocket pairs where I am dominated that I have to think twice about. I have only played 75 or so of these, so I am still getting a read so to speak on the general Party Poker $11 SNG crowd, so this input is very helpful.

Thanks alot for the replies /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the replies. Basically it sounds like it comes down to the range of hands I can put the villain on. In the original post, I was thinking AK, AQs, and pocket pairs from 10's to A's, but some of you have mentioned crap from KQ-K10 even! If I knew that he had KQ-K10 I would definately call these all in's no sweat, it is the larger pocket pairs where I am dominated that I have to think twice about. I have only played 75 or so of these, so I am still getting a read so to speak on the general Party Poker $11 SNG crowd, so this input is very helpful.

Thanks alot for the replies /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

No prob Bob!

[runner4life7]

my only other advice for the 11s, is you are usually safe to assume the other players are not good, at all. Of course this doesnt give you the right to be crazy or anything, but keep it in mind.

What would you do if you were holding AK in each situation?

[Simplistic]

hand 1 I might call. hand 2, fold.

[runner4life7]

tough to say at the 11s but i agree with the fold on hand 2 and I think I might even lay down the first one too

[kitaristi0]

[ QUOTE ]
What would you do if you were holding AK in each situation?

[/ QUOTE ]

Fold.

[SammyKid11]

Table 1 I just call and play the flop for set/overpair value.
Table 2 I call the push with QQ...at the 11's you're slightly more likely to see AQ, 88, something else you crush than you are AA-KK.

[SammyKid11]

I've just looked at the responses...I'm interested to hear what some of the more experienced posters have to say, but I think you all are giving 11'er villains FAR too much credit. Do others agree more with my above advice or the more conservative advice further above?

[tigerite]

I think they were on about the addendum of 'what if you had AK in both situations'.

I would call in both situations. (JJ and QQ, that is)