3-Bet Flop to see if I'm in good standing?

Hi!

EDIT: I mixed up the Positions. I know I cannot play the line I am suggesting here. So I wonder if I should raise the turn or what ways I can go to find out what is probable to be out there against me after villain calls on the flop and raises on the turn.


I recently find myself with TPMK in a situation quite often, that I am raised on the flop and turn and betted into on the river having no real clue, what my opponent may have. Especially if the opponent is still quite unknown.

Here he has been quite tight (15% VPIP) but I know him only for about 20 hands so he might just be getting bad cards. During these hands he has been moderatly aggressive preflop however (5% PFR).

So should I 3-Bet this flop here and/or (check-)raise the turn to see if my split Pair of Aces is any good or will that be of little meaning for whether he has a better pair or a set or is just pushing a middle pair or a flush draw. What is your line to approach these situations?

Party Poker 1.00/2.00 Hold'em <font color="#0000FF">(7 handed)</font> link (http://www.darksun.lunarpages.com/poker/)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, MP calls, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4.00 SB) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, MP folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB folds, BB calls.

Turn: (4.00 BB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, Hero calls.

River: (8.00 BB) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 10.00 BB.

Regards,

Genz

[bottomset]

k you need to raise this preflop

[ QUOTE ]
So should I 3-Bet this flop here and/or (check-)raise the turn to see if my split Pair of Aces is any good or will that be of little meaning for whether he has a better pair or a set or is just pushing a middle pair or a flush draw. What is your line to approach these situations?


[/ QUOTE ]

uh you can't 3bet the flop, or c/r the turn I hope you see why..

[SoftcoreRevolt]

Raise this preflop, I play the rest the same.

[aces_dad]

Echo'ing other posts, you can't 3bet the flop. In general I don't like putting in money just to 'see where you're at'.
You could 3bet the turn but against a c/r I don't think this is a good idea here.

post-flop I play it the same, pf I raise this from the button.

[ QUOTE ]
k you need to raise this preflop

[ QUOTE ]
So should I 3-Bet this flop here and/or (check-)raise the turn to see if my split Pair of Aces is any good or will that be of little meaning for whether he has a better pair or a set or is just pushing a middle pair or a flush draw. What is your line to approach these situations?


[/ QUOTE ]

uh you can't 3bet the flop, or c/r the turn I hope you see why..

[/ QUOTE ]

Oops. Of course. Sorry. Wasn't the "exemplary hand" I was searching for... D'oh. But in general: how much aggression would you show on the turn here? Assume a stop and go? I think I should raise the turn and fold to a cap. But that's just a gut-feeling. What do you think?

Regards.

[aces_dad]

I only 3bet a turn c/r if the villian is bluff-alistic or extremely weak-tight. Otherwise c/c river for that same BB to get to showdown.

[adsman]

[ QUOTE ]
But in general: how much aggression would you show on the turn here? Assume a stop and go? I think I should raise the turn and fold to a cap. But that's just a gut-feeling. What do you think?

Regards.

[/ QUOTE ]

This would be spewing. A Turn check-raise from a tight, moderately passive player generally means that you're screwed. Your postflop play here was good but some of your reasoning is wrong.

[Aaron_]

In this particular situation, I think the pot is too small to 3-bet the turn. Assuming that you are behind, and you have 12 live outs (against queens up), you're pot equity is only about 3 BB after his turn raise including estimated implied odds (and much less, of course, against aces up or a set). If he decides to cap, you're forced to pay a total of 3 BB to win 3 or less. Also, a turn reraise probably won't buy you a free showdown anyway.

In general, play cautiously in situations like these where it's likely you're beat and the pot is small. Here, call the turn and fold UI.

I'm chanting the "raise preflop" mantra loudly. You might even have gotten a tight player to fold something like Q9o or 92o in the big blind.

[trainslayer]

For starters raise preflop. One limper so far and you've got postion with a good but not great hand. You either get rid of the blinds or get some more dead money in. You'll find out how proud BB and MP are of their hands now and it'll probably make the flop easier also.

If BB calls and still leads out the flop I probably then go into call down mode. He could have the goods, a weaker A, a Q, a couple spades /images/graemlins/frown.gif, pp... I don't think I turn loose but that could be a leak ....

As for him being tight but just because he's been getting bad cards....that's what TAG's do. /images/graemlins/grin.gif I don't use 20 hands to define a LAG or LP but I will give some credit to him being tight.

[McGahee]

No, that's a bad idea.

I have to admit I'm saying this without reading the post.