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Boris
06-11-2003, 04:34 PM
I plagiarized this from RGP. It's almost as funny as Phil Hellmuth's article about Alan Goehring and Robert Varkonyi. Still LMAO!!

The 10K is no doubt the premier event of the year, year in and year out.
With all of these seats being dished out there is no doubt that Bins will
continue to set new marks for at least the next 3-5 years. After that then
what?? What will happen when the seats sold and the 1st place prize top out?
What happens when it starts to decline? All the greed that these online
rooms are seeking by giving away seats will surely in the end do more harm
than good for the game. The main event should be made up of the cream of the
crop of that years tournament/cash players. The title shouldn't go to
someone as undeserving as Money800. It makes me sick that a real player
didn't win. What kind of creditability does this bring to our game? That
someone who has never sat and shuffled chips has just won the biggest event
of the year, biggest event ever? Never put in real hours of play? Online
cards is a crapshoot at best, and by combining BM and online we are just
driving our game into the ground. How can you all say that this is so great
for the game that Joe Nobody came out of nowhere with 40 bucks to win this
thing? I improve my play knowing that maybe, just maybe if I play my cards
right I could someday be heads up with Johnny Chan or TJ, not some chump
from the sticks that had to sell 40% of his seat or ride his bike to Vegas
and sleep on a park bench. The final event should be invite only in my
opinion. The WPT has the right idea. Still have this 10K crapshoot every
year, but how about a real FINAL EVENT? Maybe raise the buy in to $25K and
invite only the top pros and tournament winners of the year to buy in. I
don't know but do something! This [censored] is making me sick, and I know I'm not
the only one.

Oski
06-13-2003, 03:13 AM
No way am I going to go as far as that guy, I give Moneymaker his due. On the other hand, I understand where he's coming from. I think we want to recognize the winner as the best "something" as opposed to the luckiest. In other words, a mark of a true pro is those who can play the game at the high levels day in and day out. Because of the short term luck involved with the set up, its like the guy kicking the 35 yard field goal at half time in the Dr. Pepper Challenge being named MVP of the league. One shot, you get lucky, but it does not necessarily make you best.

On the other hand, a reasonable person accepts it for what it is...part lottery, part poker skills. After all, a solid pro has a great chance of wading through the dead money and coming in near the top almost every year. But, by no means is Moneymaker now the "undisputed champ" of poker - he just caught the big wave while the judges were watching. and good for him, he stayed on the board.

So, as it stands, call it whatever you want...but I don't think this tournament really decides all that much - anyone with a seat seems to have a shot. After reading McManus' account of the 2000 wsop, I couldn't help thinking Ferguson's win included so many lucky draw-outs, it was like hitting three hail-mary's and recovering on-side kicks to win the wild-card play offs, divisional, conference finals, and Super Bowl. Luck played a huge role in the win, no matter how good Chris played, he still owed that win to luck, T.J. outplayed him.

Clarkmeister
06-13-2003, 03:18 AM
The sooner people realize this crap isn't a "sport" the better off they will be.

Oski
06-13-2003, 03:44 AM
Despite the fact I sense you are taking a "shot" at my analogies, I agree with you. I guess I could have saved the time and just typed what you typed. Its not a sport, its an event...but the true problem, Clarkmeister, is the teminology "World Series of Poker" The founders drew up the sports analogy by naming the tournament as they did. Thus, one cannot help seeing it as a sporting event - to decide the player of the year, or whatever, like the world series of baseball.

Clarkmeister
06-13-2003, 11:13 AM
It wasn't a shot at you.

The thing you must realize is that poker is a money game played with your own money. Why would the 10 "best players in the world" want to shut out 500 fish from competing against them at 10k each?

And do any of the "name players" really want to up 25 or 50k to play in a 20 player tournament against other top players? No freaking way. First, I doubt many of them have that kind of scratch laying around. Second, why bother when there are so many higher EV spots to put your money?

The only way you will get what you want is if it is sponsored 100% by EPSN or some such. And since even minor sponsorship will never happen, its a pipe dream.

We all love poker, but its not comparable to any other sport due to its nature.

Martin Aigner
06-14-2003, 06:47 PM
I disagree about the sponsorship. Paradise Poker just sponsored the World Heads Up Poker Championchip in Vienna. Buy in way 1000 + 60€, 128 players max. Paradise added 25k!

Itīs just a bargain compared to the WSOP, still it might be the beginning of something bigger.

Regards

Martin Aigner