overplay and underplay

[mojolang]

Couple 3-6 hands

Pretty typical game, loose passive, occasional raising.

I'm On the button w/AQo its folded to me. SB 3 bets it. I figure he thinks me on a steal so I make it 4. He calls.

Flop: JJA

Now I figure for him to three bet he has to have AA, KK, QQ, AK, JJ, AJ or AQ. He checks, I bet. Turn: 7c He checks, I bet. He calls. River 2d. He bets out, I knew I was beat but I just wanted to see it (I know this was a horrible call, but I really wanted to see how this played out, call it an education call). He turns over 2 jacks for quads. I really didn't like the way I played that hand. I bet the turn figuring if he was weak we could showdown for free. I think hte optimal way to play the hand in retrospect would be to bet the flop, check the turn and check fold the river if I don't improve. The only problem is that this leaves me susceptible to a bluff on the end. I dunno, what do you guys think. Quite frankly I didn't put him on the jack(s) becuase what kind of hand do you three bet with?

Hand #2: AQ /forums/images/icons/heart.gif in MP I raise and get three callers.

Flop: K /forums/images/icons/club.gif 9 /forums/images/icons/club.gif K /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif

This is a dangerous flop. it gets checked to me and I check for a free one

Turn: A /forums/images/icons/club.gif

Okay, this card isn't so bad, I have something now. Gets checked to me and I plan on calling a shot at me on the river.

River: 5 /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif

SB bets out, BB calls, now I'm thinking if someone has enough to bet a board with a pair and a two flush, and someone has enough to call I'm out.

J /forums/images/icons/spade.gif 9 /forums/images/icons/club.gif takes it down. Oh god. In retrospect I should have bet the flop in order to stop a bet on the end, but I still would be nervous about that king. I dunno.

Hand # 3: K /forums/images/icons/spade.gif K /forums/images/icons/club.gif in SB. 4 or five callers. I opt to limp,

Flop: 8 8 5. I really din't think anyone had an 8 and if they did I would find out so I check planning to check raise depending on the action. Checked to a MP player who bets, I check-raise and the BB calls the two bets cold. I didn't like that but I still felt there was a reasonable chance that my hand was good so I led out on the turn (a 10) , only to be called again by the BB.

River: 5 Damnit, I don't think I have this anymore. I check, BB looks at me (while betting) and goes " you don't have an 8 do you?"
"Nope" I say as I wing my kings into the much and he turns over 2 /forums/images/icons/heart.gif 5 /forums/images/icons/heart.gif for fives full.

Hand 4: 8 /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif 8 /forums/images/icons/club.gif

its folded to me 2 off the button so I open with raise. The button (on a short stack) reraises me. I say, " well let's just see where you're at and make it 4 bets, he calls. Once again I think he figured me for a steal (same guy as with the AQ vs JJ).

Flop: K /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif 6 /forums/images/icons/club.gif 7 /forums/images/icons/heart.gif

Now I'm thinking, okay for him to do this he has to have a big hand, but maybe not. Either way I haven't bluffed at all and I'd like to think I had a pretty conservative image and figured I'd take a shot at this pot and try to represent big slick. So I bet out and get called. I really didn't like that but still thought I could take this pot away from him. He calls, the turn: 5. Once again I bet out and get called. I really didn't think this guy was sophisticated enough to be putting a play on me so I had no idea what was going on, I actually thought he was going to call me down w/JJ or QQ. River: A

Okay that card was the best and worst card if he has one of those pairs I'm good to go if not, I'm f*cked. I fire one last barrelk and he reraises me all in for 2 more dollars. I sigh knowing I'm beat but it was a miniscule charge to see what he had. And you know what, I was betting the best hand. He turned over

A /forums/images/icons/spade.gif J /forums/images/icons/club.gif

I gotta move to europe and start playing PL and NL and blow these calling stations out of the water.

Comments and questions more than welcome.

Joe

[Nottom]

Hand 1: I really don't like your thinking on this one. You say that he probably puts you on a steal, then immediatly put him on a bunch of hands he would 3-bet with from EP + AJ. If he really thinks you are stealing, you can add about about 20 more hands to that list and if you only 3-bet with those hands against a steal-raise from the button you are playing too tight IMHO.

As for the play of the hand, I would probably check the turn to save the bet when I'm behind and to induce the bluff when I'm ahead. This is a good opportunity to do this since your AQ is way ahead of most hands yet way behind to a J. Of course if you do this you need to call a bet on the river, folding in this situation is terrible.

Hand 2: I'm a bit confused about what position you are in here since you say you have 3 callers, but later indicate you have position. I'll assume you raised a couple limpers and it was folded to the blinds.

If that is the case, I would bet the flop here about 90% of the time. You don't want to give free cards to the flush, and since AK is about the first thing everyone puts a PFR on, you may very well take the pot right there.

On the turn, again you need to bet. If someone doesn't have the flush you don't want them drawing to a one for free, you will get called by any high club and you can take the free showdown on the river if you aren't comfortable with your hand. Based on the way you played this, I would call the river bet and expect to see a weak ace or medium pocket pair or 9 here more often than not.

Hand 3: I would generally raise here to push out the BB and get all those free pre-flop bets in the pot. I like your flop and turn play and I would also check the river, but would make the call here since he hasn't looked like he has an 8 and I certainly couldn't imagine a 5 still being around. Say "ni han" and move on.

Hand 4: I like your play up until the river. I tend to think a check-fold may be in order at this point if his 3-betting standards are at all reasonable. He pretty much has to have an A or a K or a bigger PP than 8. If he's still here hes not folding to another bet.

[Homer]

Hand 1 - I'd probably check behind on the turn and call a bet on the river. If checked to on the river I would bet.

Hand 2 - I don't understand why you didn't bet the turn. You have a fairly easy overcall on the river. You probably have BB beat, as he most likely would have raised the river with a King or flush (I don't know many players smart enough to go for overcalls). Also, SB could easily have bet the river with as little as a 9 given that no one made a move at the pot on the flop or turn.

Hand 3 - I would have raised preflop. Other than that I think you played it fine.

Hand 4 - I think you played the entire hand well, including the bet on the river. He definitely has you beat so you have to bet hoping that he folds his QQ or JJ -- either that or check-fold. I probably would have check-called like an idiot.

-- Homer

[Zag]

Hand 1: I totally agree with nottom and have nothing new to add.

Hand 2: You absolutely have to bet the turn, here. There is no doubt in my mind that you are ahead at this point. I can see checking behind on the flop if you are at a table where they like to check-raise, but nobody is going to check their king around a second time. You will get calls from flush draws and from worse aces.

Plus, you will get a river call from a lot of the bad aces, too, when they are hoping your kicker doesn't play. Note that for any river other than A, K, or 9, your kicker plays. Also, those kings protect you from the worse ace hitting his kicker.

Hand 3: You say that you "opt to limp" with your cowboys. I hope that this is your low-percentage play, and that you would usually raise in this circumstance. If so, it's fine. On the end, you read it well and just got unlucky. It's just a loan.

Hand 4: This is a situation that, I think, comes up a lot, and it is worth thinking about. You have represented a big hand preflop, the flop comes up with a K, and you start trying to represent that you have the king. When an ace comes on the river, whether you check or fire one more round is the big question.

If you think that he is on a draw, there is no need to bet. He will assume that you have the king and the ace scared you enough to check. This makes more money, I think, by inducing the bluff. On this board, however, there are no draws available (other than the stupid overcard ace draw, which is what it turned out he had). The most likely hand he would have is QQ or JJ. A bet is probably not going to get him to lay it down, especially someone who is nearly all in anyway, but it only has to work once in 10 or 12 tries to be profitable. So I think you did the right thing (on the river, anyway), even though it didn't work out this time.

Last point: Don't bluff against someone who will be going all in if he makes it to the river. Many people take the attitude that they are just going to burn their last few chips and go home, so you can't get them out with a gun.

[bernie]

hand 1

"Now I figure for him to three bet he has to have AA, KK, QQ, AK, JJ, AJ or AQ."

"Quite frankly I didn't put him on the jack(s) becuase what kind of hand do you three bet with?"

seems you put him on it earlier as a possibility. i raise with much less in this situation

b