Facing massive overbet by a maniac on party 5/10 [Archive]

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JMa

10-28-2005, 07:04 PM

Villain in this hand is Banzan, a huge LAG in party 5/10 SH games. This guy is the wildest player ive seen yet at those tables. The preceeding hand I c/red a raised pot on the flop Tc9c2x and took it down right there w/o showing the hand.

I make it $50 behind a limper w/ AcAd. Banzan is BB and calls, as does CO limper.

The pot is $150 going to the flop. The effective stack is $1500. The flop is 5h 4d 2h. All check to me, I bet pot. Banzan immediately raises all in. CO folds. Its $1300 to me to call this huge overbet.

HoldEmKillah

10-28-2005, 07:17 PM

Yuck. Banzan appears to be a maniac but he/she is a very good one IMO. He doesn't chip spew here with midpair like some bad lags will. But I doubt he'd play a set or the straight this way. Tough one. He could have top 2, 66 or a big draw. Or he may think that he's trapping you with KK.

Could go either way with him since he'll call some crap hands like 4 5 and A 3 OOP. I've also seen Banz 3 bet his whole stack with 2nd pair putting me on a 'draw' when I had a QQ overpair (he rivered a 2outer but whatever). Given that history I call.

creedofhubris

10-28-2005, 07:30 PM

think this is a pretty good breakdown of his hand possibilities?

20% smaller overpair, big edge to you
40% big draw, 50/50
40% made hand, big edge to him

offhand, I'd say a call is neutral EV given this split and the money already in the pot. Others can correct me if this distribution is wacked.

metagame: fold if you want to cut down on variance, call if you don't want him picking on you. Or flip a coin.

Allinlife

10-28-2005, 07:39 PM

i instah call here vs banzan lol

10-28-2005, 10:54 PM

I call, and hope he doesnt catch most of the time, and get pissed when he shows me bottom set.

I'd call, IMO.

Chris Daddy Cool

10-28-2005, 11:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Villain in this hand is Banzan, a huge LAG in party 5/10 SH games. This guy is the wildest player ive seen yet at those tables.

[/ QUOTE ]

call.

tdarko

10-29-2005, 01:15 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Or he may think that he's trapping you with KK.

[/ QUOTE ]
i call. if all else fails (he actually does have a set)turn an ace.

etizzle

10-29-2005, 03:17 AM

i own banzan, and heres why

you just instacall in hands like the following:

oh yeah and tell me what you thnk of my play on that name (was my old Eurobet one)

***** Hand History for Game 2821425851 *****
$1000 NL Texas Hold'em - Monday, October 03, 23:35:20 EDT 2005
Table Table 36758 (6 max) (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 1: heyadeen ( $1699 )
Seat 3: watler ( $1536.08 )
Seat 4: LuckBox__ ( $1876 )
Seat 6: WillSmokeU5K ( $504 )
Seat 2: Banzan ( $990 )
Seat 5: wolfy8888 ( $1101 )
Banzan posts small blind [$5].
watler posts big blind [$10].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to heyadeen [ Ks Ah ]
>You have options at Table 55742 (6 max) (No DP) Table!.
LuckBox__ calls [$10].
wolfy8888 calls [$10].
WillSmokeU5K calls [$10].
heyadeen raises [$55].
Banzan calls [$50].
>You have options at Table 55707 (6 max) (No DP) Table!.
>You have options at Table 55082 (6 max) (No DP) Table!.
watler folds.
LuckBox__ calls [$45].
wolfy8888 folds.
>You have options at Table 55742 (6 max) (No DP) Table!.
WillSmokeU5K calls [$45].
** Dealing Flop ** [ Jc, 4s, Kd ]
Banzan checks.
LuckBox__ checks.
WillSmokeU5K checks.
>You have options at Table 55707 (6 max) (No DP) Table!.
heyadeen bets [$175].
Banzan calls [$175].
LuckBox__ folds.
WillSmokeU5K folds.
>You have options at Table 55742 (6 max) (No DP) Table!.
** Dealing Turn ** [ 3d ]
Banzan checks.
>You have options at Table 55742 (6 max) (No DP) Table!.
heyadeen bets [$275].
Banzan is all-In.
heyadeen calls [$485].
>You have options at Table 55742 (6 max) (No DP) Table!.
** Dealing River ** [ Kh ]
heyadeen shows [ Ks, Ah ] three of a kind, kings.
Banzan doesn't show [ 9d, Jh ] two pairs, kings and jacks.
heyadeen wins $2107 from the main pot with three of a kind, kings.

kagame

10-29-2005, 03:42 AM

you were pot stuck how is that much of a call

AZK

10-29-2005, 04:33 AM

This is an instacall against banzan.
That guy is awesome for tables.

flawless_victory

10-29-2005, 08:07 AM

i would beat banzan into the pot.
bye.

HoldEmKillah

10-29-2005, 11:17 AM

He is. But I have a hard time against him for some reason. I can't adjust to his lag but can easily adjust against most.

Bosox

10-29-2005, 11:48 AM

[ QUOTE ]
He is. But I have a hard time against him for some reason. I can't adjust to his lag but can easily adjust against most.

[/ QUOTE ]

Given his propensity to call or reraise away his stack, Banzan is the kind I just wait for premiums with and he doesn't notice and consistently pays me off. Buddyyyyylist.

flawless_victory

10-29-2005, 11:52 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
He is. But I have a hard time against him for some reason. I can't adjust to his lag but can easily adjust against most.

[/ QUOTE ]

Given his propensity to call or reraise away his stack, Banzan is the kind I just wait for premiums with and he doesn't notice and consistently pays me off. Buddyyyyylist.

[/ QUOTE ]you sound pretty tough.

etizzle

10-29-2005, 12:01 PM

yeah, you're right, but would be the same thing if he had 1k more in his stack

Niwa

10-29-2005, 12:13 PM

love your short replies =)

11-03-2005, 04:52 PM

Thanks to this post I am $1,500 richer. The following hand occured today, I had never played with Banzan (BB) before. Called solely based on the comments in this thread. Not much content here, just wanted to say thanks I guess.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

saw flop|saw showdown

MP ($339)
CO ($604)
Hero ($1447.25)
SB ($1265)
BB ($1657.50)
UTG ($1199)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif. SB posts a blind of $5.
2 folds, CO raises to $40, Hero calls $40, SB (poster) calls $35, BB calls $30.

Flop: ($160) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, CO bets $50, Hero raises to $200, SB folds, BB calls $1617.50 (All-In), CO folds, Hero calls $1207.25 (All-In).

Turn: ($3234.75) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($3234.75) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: $3234.75

Results in white below: 
BB has Ad Jd (high card, ace).
Hero has Qh Kc (one pair, kings).
Outcome: Hero wins $3024.50. BB wins $210.25.

Prevaricator

11-03-2005, 05:04 PM

that call is very marginal btw, even vs banzan.

TheMainEvent

11-03-2005, 05:07 PM

You do realize that this is not a maniacal play by him and he actually got his chips in as a favorite right? I mean you had odds to call obviously, but it's not exactly a coup to get all in with him on this hand.

Big_Jim

11-03-2005, 05:07 PM

Yikes.

C/r all in over a better and a raiser is much different than c/r all in over a continuation bet.

Way to win that coinflip.

pokenum -h kc qh - ad jd -- td kd 5h
Holdem Hi: 990 enumerated boards containing Kd Td 5h
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Kc Qh 486 49.09 504 50.91 0 0.00 0.491
Ad Jd 504 50.91 486 49.09 0 0.00 0.509

Officer Farva

11-03-2005, 06:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks to this post I am $1,500 richer. The following hand occured today, I had never played with Banzan (BB) before. Called solely based on the comments in this thread. Not much content here, just wanted to say thanks I guess.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

saw flop|saw showdown

MP ($339)
CO ($604)
Hero ($1447.25)
SB ($1265)
BB ($1657.50)
UTG ($1199)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif. SB posts a blind of $5.
2 folds, CO raises to $40, Hero calls $40, SB (poster) calls $35, BB calls $30.

Flop: ($160) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, CO bets $50, Hero raises to $200, SB folds, BB calls $1617.50 (All-In), CO folds, Hero calls $1207.25 (All-In).

Turn: ($3234.75) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($3234.75) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: $3234.75

Results in white below: 
BB has Ad Jd (high card, ace).
Hero has Qh Kc (one pair, kings).
Outcome: Hero wins $3024.50. BB wins $210.25. 

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
that call is very marginal btw, even vs banzan.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

You do realize that this is not a maniacal play by him and he actually got his chips in as a favorite right? I mean you had odds to call obviously, but it's not exactly a coup to get all in with him on this hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Yikes.

C/r all in over a better and a raiser is much different than c/r all in over a continuation bet.

Way to win that coinflip.

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.diskuspublishing.com/backfire.jpg

etizzle

11-03-2005, 06:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
that call is very bad btw, even vs banzan.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

punter11235

11-03-2005, 06:39 PM

Banzan may be aggressive but hes not stupid. I would fold this. Even if you are favourite its not big edge and if you are behind you are dead. I think Banzan knows that its difficult to push sb around on 2tone boards.

Best wishes

MaGi

11-03-2005, 06:52 PM

if I were the one betting would you instacall? i dont think it would have mattered

tewall

11-03-2005, 07:24 PM

I think you're considering the problem the way it needs to be looked at.

[ QUOTE ]
20% smaller overpair, big edge to you
40% big draw, 50/50
40% made hand, big edge to him

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is too pessimistic. The all-in dude has been described as someone who will go all-in with any excuse. So possibilities that come to mind are:

a)Made hand that has you crushed (e.g. set; about 4 to 1)
b)Made hand that's a favorite (e.g.. 2 pair; about 3 to 2)
c)Made hand you have beat (e.g. top pair; about 1 to 2)
d)Nothing (e.g. 2 overcards with no draw; about 1 to 4)
e)Big draw, coin flip

I really doubt a) and b) would come up to 40%. Given that he will go in with any excuse, I'd think 20% would be closer. My guess is you'd be a decent favorite, maybe 3 to 2, by the time you put it all together. When you add in the dead money already in the pot, it makes it an easy call.