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View Full Version : I will never play on empire poker ever again. (Long read)


10-28-2005, 04:19 PM
I am a 20 y/o college student taking the semester off and am working a full time job right now. I am a tournament player, and you will rarely see me sit down for a cash game. I play the $22 sit n go's up to the $55 sit n go's. I also play in the big multi-player tournaments. Ironically I have better results at the $55 tables then I do the at $22 and $33 tables, mainly because there aren't as many donks drawing out on me. I don't play the $55 tables full time, because I can't handle the variance.

Although I am not a very high stakes player I am a winning player and make more money playing poker then I do at my job. No I'm not quitting my job as I think it would be the dumbest thing for me to do, and I have no aspiration to be a full time professional. I make about $1300 a month at my job and Ive made $2500 this month playing live and online.

In the last month Ive made made 4 final tables in big multi-player tournaments. 3 were on empire, and 1 was live. I took 1st, 6th, and 6th in the tournaments, and took 2nd in the live tournament. My tournament winnings totaled $2800.00

As of late, I have been getting my ass kicked at the sit n go's. I have had my downswings, but this is ridiculous. Normally you could say that Im running bad but I dont think thats the case. This week Ive lost close to $800. This same week Ive placed 12th in a $10,000 guarantee re-buy tournament and placed 6th in the $5000 guarantee. At the same time though I have placed 4th and out of the money at almost every sit n go I've played in and the beats have been horrible. Last night, I basically had it and decided to do an experiment. I had about $300 sitting in my account from when I made my last final table. Now I do not have any problems with tilting. No matter how bad things get I never just throw it all away. I dont let it get to me and I just continue to play my game. My experiment was that I was willing to lose the $300 I had sitting in my empire account. I played in enough sit n go's to lose the $300. I would say I played in about 12-15 tournaments. I have had bad luck in sit n go's as of late but I wanted to see if the trend would continue. Heres what happened.

In the last week the following has happened. Be aware that this is only happening in the sit n go's and not the multi's.

This week, Ive lost 90% of my coinflips, and I have lost all but 2 situations where I have had AK and the other guy had a lower Ace. I placed 4th many times because of that.

In the last 8 tournaments I played in the last 2 hours. I placed 4th in 5 of those and placed 3rd in one other. The other two were worse then 4th. Every 4th came as a result of a bad beat.

I ran into AA 5 times. Believe it or not, I actually laid down KK on the first hand of a $50 Sit n go because I was convinced that of the two players that were already all in that one of them was holding Aces. I was right and the two players had AA and QQ with the Aces holding up.

AA lost to JJ and QQ... both were all in's and the Q and J hit the river. This almost made me vomit, because I had the hands simultaneously. I was multi-tabling and looked down and saw pocket Aces on two different tables. I lost both at the same time.

QQ and KK lost to A x about 6 times with x being lower then a Q... so I kept losing to the 3 outer.

All of the above were all in situations pre-flop so its not like I was stubborn when the flop came and wouldnt make the lay down.

I'm not trying to cry about bad beats, but rather trying to make a point. On the other side of things, I gave maybe 1 bad beat out of all of this, which happened to be my AK drawing out on pocket 7's which isnt that terrible of a beat.

I know everyone runs bad from time to time, but this is ludicrous.

So yes I blew through the $300, and my account with my empire has been closed.

I don't know if its a coincidence, but this downtrend in the sit n go's started right after the party split. I'm not going to say its fixed, but something doesnt seem right the way the cards have fallen.

As I said, in the tournaments where you have to play straight poker for several hours I have done well, but in the sit n go's forget about it. Thats why I dont think this is just a terrible downswing.

Heres the letter I sent to them last night.

To: Empire Poker
From: Otherside61

I have really had it with your site. I am a tournament player that primarily plays sit n go's and major tournaments that the site holds. I think the format of your sit n go tournaments is horrible. It doesnt matter how well I play, someone always outdraws me. The vast majority of the time I am all in with the best hand I get outdrawn. It doesnt matter if I have a 4:1 advantage over my opponent, i still end up losing.

The format of your sit n go tournaments really needs to change. It takes absolutely no skill whatsoever to do well in those. All you have to do is wait till the blinds become so large that every hand is an all in.

You can say that I am a bad player, but I have made 4 final tables this month in big tournaments, three of which occurred on your site. This included a win in the $5000 guarantee tournament.

With all that said, please close my account. I dont even care about the $16 in my account, I dont want to have anything to do with your site. I will be taking my game in the near future to Poker Stars where I have heard nothing but good things. The site is also endorsed by some of the worlds best poker players which only adds to the legitimacy of the site. The fact that I never see any commercials, never see any professionals plugging your site, and see that party poker has completley cut you off forces me to question the validity of your site.

Good luck surving in the world of online poker.

Please feel free to make any comments.

revots33
10-28-2005, 04:22 PM
this should be good.

Mr_J
10-28-2005, 04:22 PM
Grow up.

hellite
10-28-2005, 04:25 PM
Something about the worlds smallest violin?

jzpiano14
10-28-2005, 04:33 PM
This just in......WORLD'S LONGEST BAD BEAT POST

NOBODY GIVES A [censored]!

TTChamp
10-28-2005, 04:34 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Ironically I have better results at the $55 tables then I do the at $22 and $33 tables, mainly because there aren't as many donks drawing out on me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now hold on a minute guys, this does make his case sound credible.

MicroBob
10-28-2005, 04:36 PM
I didn't read the whole thing.
But I'm sorry to hear that you suck at poker.


Wonder how many e-mails party, empire, stars, etc gets that say "I've had it with your site. Fix your random card generator because it's so OBVIOUS that the cards don't run right (otherwise I would be winning)."


[ QUOTE ]
I'm not going to say its fixed, but something doesnt seem right the way the cards have fallen.


[/ QUOTE ]


ummmm.....okay.

"It's not rigged. Except that it's rigged."



We really should consider a policy of locking/deleting some of these 'bad-beat/I can't win therefore it must be rigged' type threads.

Art Vandelay
10-28-2005, 04:36 PM
For someone that's not complaining about bad beats you sure do a pretty good job making it seem like you are.

Why do people keep posting these threads? You know what the response is going to be.

BigF
10-28-2005, 04:42 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ironically I have better results at the $55 tables then I do the at $22 and $33 tables, mainly because there aren't as many donks drawing out on me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now hold on a minute guys, this does make his case sound credible.

[/ QUOTE ]

What about when he boldly claims he makes more at poker than he does at his full time job?

Oh wait, he had some nice finishes last month and it happened to be his FIRST month at the job.

Because he had 4 nice finishes last month, it should ALWAYS be that way. If not, God Forbid, he shall pull his massive funds out of this evil poker site to show them who's the boss. How dare you EmpirePoker....

10-28-2005, 04:43 PM
I have never liked the idea of playing sitngo's for income for this reason. the variance is awful Party took alot of the donks with them after the split dude. even though you blame them for losing, that is probably why you are not doing as well.

Synergistic Explosions
10-28-2005, 04:44 PM
Until you realize the DOOM SWITCH is real on Empire and take measures to force it to go off, you will continue to lose on Empire.

The DOOM SWITCH is the great equalizer, it allows weaker players to keep their money longer, and generate rake longer.

To mitigate the DOOM SWITCH factor, one must log off and on ten times consecutively.

Hope that helps. Good luck.

10-28-2005, 04:45 PM
Nice troll.

DrNo888
10-28-2005, 04:49 PM
I hope I am using this correctly since it's my first time.

YSSCKY

TTChamp
10-28-2005, 04:52 PM
[ QUOTE ]
To mitigate the DOOM SWITCH factor, one must log off and on ten times consecutively.

[/ QUOTE ]

No you are wrong. It is right, left, down, up , A, B, Start to turn off DOOM SWITCH.

Hornacek
10-28-2005, 04:53 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I hope I am using this correctly since it's my first time.

YSSCKY

[/ QUOTE ]

nh.

TTChamp
10-28-2005, 04:54 PM
[ QUOTE ]
With all that said, please close my account. I dont even care about the $16 in my account, I dont want to have anything to do with your site. I will be taking my game in the near future to Poker Stars where I have heard nothing but good things.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'll take your $16. Screen name=TTChamp.

OrcaDK
10-28-2005, 04:55 PM
[ QUOTE ]
The format of your sit n go tournaments really needs to change. It takes absolutely no skill whatsoever to do well in those. All you have to do is wait till the blinds become so large that every hand is an all in.

[/ QUOTE ]

So basically you're saying you're so dumb that you don't have even the slightest bit of skill?

FishNChips
10-28-2005, 04:56 PM
for the record, this :

Now I do not have any problems with tilting. No matter how bad things get I never just throw it all away. I dont let it get to me and I just continue to play my game.

is where I stopped reading, and I'd like the 45seconds it took to get there back please.

FishNChips

pshabi
10-28-2005, 05:00 PM
So, you don't like the way the cards come off the deck at Party so you're moving to RiverStars?

Ok, let us know how that works out.

10-28-2005, 05:03 PM
I have always had variance at the sit n go's. I understand that fully. In the past I have had bad runs on the sit n go's before but its been a combination of bad luck and which led to bad play. Those were in the earlier stages of my poker life. But this is the different for the fact that I have continually played my game, and every time I get 4 handed I pick up a big hand where I have my opponent domintated and I get sucked out every time regardless of our holdings.

Ive been working this job since May so no I didnt just start yesterday.

The donks are still at empire, but they have been drawing out on at the sit n go's like ive never seen before.

For everyone else: Anyone who thinks that telling me I suck is going to make me feel bad is sorely mistaken because I knew in advance that there were going to be some fools who would try to belittle me. The purpose of this post is to see if anyone else still plays on empire and how their experience has been. I don't care if you don't like bad beat posts and think this is too long because no one is forcing you to click on this..

Also if anyone has a suggestion for a new site I'm all ears. At the moment, Pokerstars is my first choice.

BTW... empire must have taken my email somewhat seriously because my account was closed in a matter of hours after sending it. Other times I have sent them emails regarding other issues, I have never had any response and have had to call them.

-Gary

Tom Bayes
10-28-2005, 05:06 PM
I just called 911. The BAD BEAT POLICE are on the way.

SomethingClever
10-28-2005, 05:09 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Ironically I have better results at the $55 tables then I do the at $22 and $33 tables, mainly because there aren't as many donks drawing out on me.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was able to predict the rest of this post based on this line alone.

You don't understand poker.

SoCalRugger
10-28-2005, 05:10 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Ironically I have better results at the $55 tables then I do the at $22 and $33 tables, mainly because there aren't as many donks drawing out on me.

[/ QUOTE ]
http://img496.imageshack.us/img496/2204/thorny6eb.png

10-28-2005, 05:13 PM
You should just play multis. Ok problem solved go back to making millions.

wiggs73
10-28-2005, 05:23 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I have always had variance at the sit n go's. I understand that fully.

[/ QUOTE ]

I read about 1/3 of the way through your first post. I read a couple of the responses. I read the first line of this post.

It's very obvious that you DON'T understand variance at sit-n-go's. I'll try to be polite here because I'm sure you didn't mean to come across as annoying and I'm sure the majority of the responses aren't going to be the nicest in the world. But 12-15 OOTM is NOTHING in sit-n-go's. It's a bad run, but it's seriously nothing. Go search through some threads in the STT forum. You'll see 400 game losing streaks (not OOTM streaks, but 400 game down-swings nontheless). You'll see 20+ game OOTM streaks. You'll see worse than you thought was possible. And this is from winning players.

IMO, you just haven't played enough to get a true grasp of what variance really is. I can tell that from the little of your posts that I did read. It's OK, I know where you're coming from... I've been there myself. But until you accept that streaks like the one you just went through ARE a part of poker, you won't be able to survive this game for very long.

Go search through some old threads in the STT forum. Use the search function. And read this (http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=&Number=1822484&page=1 &view=collapsed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=) thread too. It might help a bit. My $.02.

- Wiggs

obsidian
10-28-2005, 05:26 PM
I wonder if the guys at Empire laughed at your "letter" to them as much as I did.

HRFats
10-28-2005, 05:30 PM
[ QUOTE ]
The purpose of this post is to see if anyone else still plays on empire and how their experience has been.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have had EXCELLENT results on Empire since the split. I mainly play $22's but sometimes play $55's (if that's where I see you on my buddy list). I also do better at 55's but prefer to play the $22's because I always see you their and took all your fcking money HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

JohnnyHumongous
10-28-2005, 05:38 PM
Time and time again, 2+2 posters prove that they are the REAL donks, falling for the clearly phony trolling, baiting posts over and over.

wiggs73
10-28-2005, 05:48 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Time and time again, 2+2 posters prove that they are the REAL donks, falling for the clearly phony trolling, baiting posts over and over.

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably because we know that there are actually people out there that think along these lines.

cardcounter0
10-28-2005, 05:54 PM
How late is Taco Bell open?

Sponger15SB
10-28-2005, 06:00 PM
tl;dr

billyjex
10-28-2005, 06:04 PM
You are the type of player that makes this game profitable for me. Thanks! (and please tell me where you plan to play in the future.)

Amid Cent
10-28-2005, 06:29 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I knew in advance that there were going to be some fools who would try to belittle me.

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.cigarros-puros.com/images/rauljulia.jpg

"And with God as my witness, I am that fool!"

usmfan
10-28-2005, 06:33 PM
[ QUOTE ]
tl;dr

[/ QUOTE ]

IronDragon1
10-28-2005, 06:36 PM
phew.

For a second I thought the zoo was in decline.

jwvdcw
10-28-2005, 06:49 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ironically I have better results at the $55 tables then I do the at $22 and $33 tables, mainly because there aren't as many donks drawing out on me.

[/ QUOTE ]
http://img496.imageshack.us/img496/2204/thorny6eb.png

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL...awesome pic. You happen to have a link to that?

Sponger15SB
10-28-2005, 06:54 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

http://img496.imageshack.us/img496/2204/thorny6eb.png

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL...awesome pic. You happen to have a link to that?

[/ QUOTE ]

WTF? You don't know how to find the URL of that picture....

http://img496.imageshack.us/img496/2204/thorny6eb.png

jwvdcw
10-28-2005, 06:58 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I have always had variance at the sit n go's. I understand that fully.

[/ QUOTE ]

I read about 1/3 of the way through your first post. I read a couple of the responses. I read the first line of this post.

It's very obvious that you DON'T understand variance at sit-n-go's. I'll try to be polite here because I'm sure you didn't mean to come across as annoying and I'm sure the majority of the responses aren't going to be the nicest in the world. But 12-15 OOTM is NOTHING in sit-n-go's. It's a bad run, but it's seriously nothing. Go search through some threads in the STT forum. You'll see 400 game losing streaks (not OOTM streaks, but 400 game down-swings nontheless). You'll see 20+ game OOTM streaks. You'll see worse than you thought was possible. And this is from winning players.

IMO, you just haven't played enough to get a true grasp of what variance really is. I can tell that from the little of your posts that I did read. It's OK, I know where you're coming from... I've been there myself. But until you accept that streaks like the one you just went through ARE a part of poker, you won't be able to survive this game for very long.

Go search through some old threads in the STT forum. Use the search function. And read this (http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=&Number=1822484&page=1 &view=collapsed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=) thread too. It might help a bit. My $.02.

- Wiggs

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a good post here.

Otherside, I have played poker seriously for about 3 years, 2 of which it was my entire source of income. During that time I have had quite a few terrible runs. I won't go too far into detail but I've gone broke twice, I've lost back-to back-to back tourneys on runner-runner bad beats, I've lost over $10000 in a day multiple times.

And you know what....theres a ton of people here that have had it even worse than me.

Many poker players don't realize just how close the line between luck and skill is. Its a lot more luck than you think probably. And thats a good thing because poker contains pretty much the perfect mix of luck and skill that keeps the bad players coming back.

Changing sites is not going to change anything. Moreover, your claims that you never tilt and that you are better at the higher limits because less people outdraw you are completely laughable, and its going to cause a lot of people here to not take you seriously.

Most likely, you're posting this because you want some support. If so, come out and say so. Just make a post asking for help and tell people that you have gone through a serious of bad beats and want some advice on how to best handle them. But you're not going to get much help doing things the way you are now.

If you truly do believe that Stars is "less rigged", then go ahead and make the switch. Even though its a ridiculous idea, if it gives you peace of mind and lets you play without that chip on your shoulder, then go ahead.

parade
10-28-2005, 09:12 PM
Ummm, one observation. If I were making $1300 a month working full time, I would be thinking about getting that college degree ASAP and not taking some time off...

Sponger15SB
10-28-2005, 09:19 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Ummm, one observation. If I were making $1300 a month working full time, I would be thinking about getting that college degree ASAP and not taking some time off...

[/ QUOTE ]

*whistles*

benfranklin
10-28-2005, 09:45 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I have better results at the $55 tables then I do the at $22 and $33 tables, mainly because there aren't as many donks drawing out on me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Phil? Is that you Phil? Come on Hellmuth, fess up. We know it's you, because you know how to spell "poker". /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

hemstock
10-28-2005, 10:53 PM
This thread is funny.
But the email to empire is the best part.

UATrewqaz
10-28-2005, 11:00 PM
The fact you think your better hand is somehow morally and ethically entitled to win indicates you are not a real poker player.

Unoriginalname
10-28-2005, 11:02 PM
I have still yet to see any "online poker is rigged!" whiner give any sort of rational reason WHY a poker site would be out to get you. Why the hell would they all of a sudden just let loose a doom switch on you for playing STTs?

10-28-2005, 11:44 PM
[ QUOTE ]

It takes absolutely no skill whatsoever to do well in those.


[/ QUOTE ]

why again are you complaining about not winning consistently there?

krishanleong
10-28-2005, 11:47 PM
You've been here for quite some time
That's why I write this rhyme
You should know by now
Don't have a cow
That post wasn't worth a dime

If you're new then please resist
The urge to make posts like this
You'll need to read
Or else you'll bleed
Your chips cuz you're the fish

Either way I must implore
If you're unable to make a score
Please end this thread
Just go and spread
Your legs and bonus whore

Just practicing if any HUSHers read this.

Krishan

10-29-2005, 12:45 AM
If luck weren't a factor, you would probably win every hand

10-29-2005, 01:34 AM
news flash: you arent really a winning player

Baulucky
10-29-2005, 01:38 AM
You can't win. You can't breakeven. You can't stop playing.

ripped
10-29-2005, 01:39 AM
I agree..you should quit and leave the easy money for the rest of us..

That being said I had a 13 game OOTM streak today.

I'd like to know how many total sng's you have played. I went through 2 months of losing at the sng's and found out it was because of MY play. Now Im back cleaning them up once again. Variance is a bitch.

BillFranklin
10-29-2005, 02:49 AM
Please post empire's response to this email.

Shilly
10-29-2005, 02:51 AM
TO: Poker Stars Support
FROM: Jordan Berkowitz

bracelet me plz

Newt_Buggs
10-29-2005, 03:36 AM
This is an awesome thread, I'm bookmarking it. A big thanks to the OP /images/graemlins/grin.gif