View Full Version : PL - flopped nuts with redraw to non-nut flush
Post-Oak
10-28-2005, 03:49 PM
I am just learning to play Omaha high. I have read the chapter in Super System II, as well as the chapter in the Ciaffone and Rueben book (Pot Limit and NL Poker?).
I am totally inexperienced. I have just started to play.
How badly did I play this? Should I have called preflop? Can I safely fold the turn?
I have no reads on "villain", as he just sat down. He had none on me either.
$0.50-$1.00 PL, 9 players
Villain ($230) opens in MP with pot size raise to $3.50. One LP caller, SB folds, I ($184) call in BB with 6 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 9 /images/graemlins/club.gif J /images/graemlins/diamond.gif
Flop ($11.00), 3 players
4 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 5 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif
I check, Villain bets $10, LP folds, I raise pot to $41. Villain calls.
Turn ($93) 2 players
4 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 5 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif
I bet $40.50. He minraises to $81. I went into the tank, then went all-in for about $60 more. I figured he had the A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif, but didn't know if he really had a flush.
How should I play that turn?
Any comments appreciated.
scdavis0
10-28-2005, 03:53 PM
OK so let me get this straight. You thought that your opponent bet the flop with no pair/no draw but a fake nut flush draw. Then he called a pot sized raise. Then the diamond hit, and then he thought he would represent the nut flush by check-min raising you.
I think your hand reading skills need a little work.
I muck on that turn, personally. I dont like playing pots like that OOP. When he calls on the flop, i'm putting him on the nut flush draw. Omaha Hi- if you're not drawing at the nuts, then most the time you shouldnt be drawing. It sucks that you flopped the nuts, and you either had a dimaond draw or as i like to put it "diamond blockers", but I like waiting to put the money in on the turn so I can muck to the flush if it gets there, and opponents are more likely to fold the big draw on the turn when they have to call a pot sized bet with only one card to come.
Tex
Post-Oak
10-28-2005, 04:07 PM
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OK so let me get this straight. You thought that your opponent bet the flop with no pair/no draw but a fake nut flush draw.
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At this point I thought he probably had AA in his hand. Is that reasonable? I realy don't know if it is or not, and I would appreciate your input.
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Then he called a pot sized raise.
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Yeah, at this point, even I was suspicious. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif
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Then the diamond hit, and then he thought he would represent the nut flush by check-min raising you.
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It was not a check raise. Do people represent the nut flush with a naked A at this level, or does that rarely if ever happen?
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I think your hand reading skills need a little work.
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Yeah.
Post-Oak
10-28-2005, 04:11 PM
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I muck on that turn, personally. I dont like playing pots like that OOP. When he calls on the flop, i'm putting him on the nut flush draw.
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Would you check fold the turn to pretty much any bet?
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Omaha Hi- if you're not drawing at the nuts, then most the time you shouldnt be drawing. It sucks that you flopped the nuts, and you either had a dimaond draw or as i like to put it "diamond blockers", but I like waiting to put the money in on the turn so I can muck to the flush if it gets there,
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So you would have check called that flop, even with the diamond blockers? And then you would lead pot on any non diamond?
What if the board paired?
joewatch
10-28-2005, 05:56 PM
Your and Villain's stack are way too deep to be check-raising for 25% of your stack on the flop. I think you are better off check-calling or leading with hopes to take it down or to get raised, then reraising for at least 50% of your stack. Then you can just push the rest in on the turn no matter what card.
Any way, after check-raising the flop, I think potting it on the turn is in order. That way you are letting Villain know you can't get bluffed out.
I think your play was ok if your read is that Villain is making a naked ace bluff.
Post-Oak
10-28-2005, 07:17 PM
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Your and Villain's stack are way too deep to be check-raising for 25% of your stack on the flop. I think you are better off check-calling or leading with hopes to take it down or to get raised, then reraising for at least 50% of your stack. Then you can just push the rest in on the turn no matter what card.
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This makes a lot of sense to me.
Thanks for all the input guys. This should definitely help.
As for the results, I think it's no surprise that he had the nut flush and stacked me. In fact, he had the A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif AND the Q /images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
Edit to add:
His other card were 3 /images/graemlins/club.gif 7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif. So he was raising with garbage preflop. I had thought he probably had AA when he bet the flop.
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