give up?

[schwza]

sorry, bisonbison is down.

this is in the first couple of hands of the super thursday (150+12). how often do you just give up here? i feel like it shouldn't be 100%, but i don't know if this is the board to get uppity on.

***** Hand History for Game 2941012977 *****
15/30 Tourney Texas Hold'em Game Table (NL) (Tournament 16929395) - Thu Oct 27 21:05:10 EDT 2005
Table Super Thursday(498013) Table 70 (Real Money) -- Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: Oiror (955)
Seat 2: Sounder66 (1020)
Seat 3: HERO (970)
Seat 4: Carson2Chad (1030)
Seat 5: cowhauler (1000)
Seat 6: mcwho (880)
Seat 7: WN4LIFE (1180)
Seat 8: ImUr_Hklbry (1000)
Seat 9: JACKALLEN (1010)
Seat 10: JRAvila (955)
Carson2Chad posts small blind (10)
cowhauler posts big blind (15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to HERO [ 7d, 7c ]
mcwho folds.
WN4LIFE folds.
ImUr_Hklbry folds.
JACKALLEN folds.
JRAvila raises (55) to 55
Oiror folds.
Sounder66 folds.
HERO calls (55)
Carson2Chad folds.
cowhauler folds.
** Dealing Flop ** : [ Kc, Th, 3s ] (pot is 135)
JRAvila bets (75)

[People_Mover]

I give up, but I'm weak tight.

[ QUOTE ]
sorry, bisonbison is down.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, what's up with that?

Ok, on with the hand.

Helps if you have any reads on villian. Normally early I'm looking to hit a set or get out with a mid pair. If you want to take a shot and reraise then go for it. This looks like a continuation bet so it's not a bad move.

I give up close to 100% of the time especially with 2 overs. If you raise and get called you are going to have trouble figuring out if they were on a draw or if they have a made hand.

Let's say you make a standard reraise to 200 and they call. What card besides a 7 do you like here on the turn. There's 535 in the pot and they check to you, we'll even say a complete blank hit like the 2d, do you fire again? They may have decided to take one off with AQ looking to hit an A or J and will fold to your bet. But they may have a made hand and will come over the top of you.

The call on the turn worries you though and instead of firing another bet on the turn and risking your tourney you check. Another 2 hits the board and they bet 350. You have 700 and now have no idea if they are bluffing because you showed weakness or if they have you beat. You call and you are crippled with 350 if you're wrong... pushing in only gets you called if you're beat so there's no point in that.

I let it go here instead of making tougher decision for myself in the future.

Actually... now that I've typed this I think you could call if you want and see the turn. If a blank hits and they check you can bet the turn and take it down or hopefully get to cheap showdown on the river. If they fire again on the turn though I'm done... 100% of the time.

[Cactus Jack]

Fit or fold. Bye bye.

[Sam T.]

With a deeper stack, or a solid read you can maybe get fancy, but I don't think this is the time or place.

If you do decide to continue I don't much like a call here, simply because tweve cards (A, J, Q) pretty much kill your hand if he bets into you again. If you've seen him c-bet and then shut it down when called, that's a good option no matter what your cards are, but at this point you can't have that read.

If you decide to blast him off the hand and put in a big raise, that's certainly an option, but this early the Calling Stations are everywhere, and he'll call even without a king. If your raise is called, you may be able to take it down with a turn bet, but by then you've got a lot of chips in the middle with a prety mediocre hand.

Sam

I would fold for 3 reasons :

1- If you call or Raise and get called only a 7 helps you. You don't want to risk any money with that hand, you could do it with JJ or QQ.

2-You don't want to raise and then fold to a bet or a re-raise. You will have a bad table image, you want people to be scared of you, when you bet, you got it and they will ahve to put a lot of money in to get to a showdown.

3-Still early, you can wait, blinds don't hurt you.

[Rizen]

Without reading the other replies I probably pick a different spot to get fancy. I tend to shy away from playing my mid PPs hard when two broadway cards fall though. Even if he has a legitimate MP raising hand that missed (QJs, AJ, AQ) he's likely to peel off a turn card unless you want to play for your entire stack on the flop. I'd be more inclined to keep an eye on this player and gather info I can use later.

The only thing you can really hope for here is that you could push him off a hand like 88 or 99 that you're behind, and without any additional reads on this player, I think that's quite unlikely.

-Rizen

[schwza]

in a possibly dubious decision, i called.

***** Hand History for Game 2941012977 *****
15/30 Tourney Texas Hold'em Game Table (NL) (Tournament 16929395) - Thu Oct 27 21:05:10 EDT 2005
Table Super Thursday(498013) Table 70 (Real Money) -- Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: Oiror (955)
Seat 2: Sounder66 (1020)
Seat 3: HERO (970)
Seat 4: Carson2Chad (1030)
Seat 5: cowhauler (1000)
Seat 6: mcwho (880)
Seat 7: WN4LIFE (1180)
Seat 8: ImUr_Hklbry (1000)
Seat 9: JACKALLEN (1010)
Seat 10: JRAvila (955)
Carson2Chad posts small blind (10)
cowhauler posts big blind (15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to HERO [ 7d, 7c ]
mcwho folds.
WN4LIFE folds.
ImUr_Hklbry folds.
JACKALLEN folds.
JRAvila raises (55) to 55
Oiror folds.
Sounder66 folds.
HERO calls (55)
Carson2Chad folds.
cowhauler folds.
** Dealing Flop ** : [ Kc, Th, 3s ]
JRAvila bets (75)
HERO calls (75)
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 8s ] pot 260, villain has 835
JRAvila checks.
HERO?

[ QUOTE ]
I give up, but I'm weak tight.

[/ QUOTE ]

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I give up, but I'm weak tight.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

is that a vote for continuing to give up, or were you responding to the flop?

[woodguy]

Must bet here.

~200ish is ok.

If he's setting you up, good for him, way,way, way too often they have just given up and is folding JJ,99 AQ, etc.

Regards,
Woodguy

[adanthar]

If you're going with a read, I like your line. This is also where you bet 175 or so and get him off of queens.

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
If you're going with a read, I like your line. This is also where you bet 175 or so and get him off of queens.

[/ QUOTE ]

first couple of hands, so no read. what do you think of the flop?

[Gar Pike]

I'd think for a bit and bet 150-175. Big enough to look like you're trying to protect against a draw, small enough to look like you don't mind a call, and small enough you aren't comitted to calling an allin reraise. Sucks to spend 1/3 of your chips just to decide you're beat, but if he doesn't quit here, I do.

If nothing else, you gain a little info on this guy, depending on his response.

At worst, I've gotten my stack down to where it's easier to play...(and for those of you who take the written word as gospel, that was a joke)

Regards

Gar

[Sam T.]

Bet the turn t200, and pat yourself on the back when the chips come your way.

[mlagoo]

not to be a negative nelly, but i mean.... without a read, my question is: why?

Just fold the flop, it missed you, it's no big deal. I mean, he could just as easily have a K here as not. Just because it's a CB doesn't mean he missed.

To be honest, the flop/turn line villian took in this hand is pretty much identical to a flop/turn line i take ~60% of the time I flop TPTK here. I'm not saying that's what he has, but if it is, he's extracting an extra 250 chips or so out of your 77 than he should have when you should fold the flop you missed.

I guess what I'm saying is like... there's no need for FPS here. Maybe if the flop came 963 or something. But this one just missed you, and could easily have hit him. Let it go. There's just no real reason to continue.

[Steve Chase]

Most of the time (90%) I just simply fold. I play 77 for set value in a raised pot.

Sometimes, when I get bored (no playable hands for a while) I call to see if he will bet after the turn or if I will get lucky on the turn (hit a 7).
If they fire a sizale second shot, I would fold.
If they showed weakness in the turn bet, I may bet or raise to take down the pot after turn.

Sometimes, if I feel the vilian is weak tight, I would raise after the flop and hope vilian had QQ, JJ, AT, 99, 88 ..etc and fold his better hand when a K is on board.
A call after flop will boost Vilian's confidence that he has the better hand which will encourage him to fire the second shot if he is aggressive and loose.

[schwza]

i thought about betting the river, but i chickened out. thoughts on all streets appreciated.

***** Hand History for Game 2941012977 *****
15/30 Tourney Texas Hold'em Game Table (NL) (Tournament 16929395) - Thu Oct 27 21:05:10 EDT 2005
Table Super Thursday(498013) Table 70 (Real Money) -- Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: Oiror (955)
Seat 2: Sounder66 (1020)
Seat 3: HERO (970)
Seat 4: Carson2Chad (1030)
Seat 5: cowhauler (1000)
Seat 6: mcwho (880)
Seat 7: WN4LIFE (1180)
Seat 8: ImUr_Hklbry (1000)
Seat 9: JACKALLEN (1010)
Seat 10: JRAvila (955)
Carson2Chad posts small blind (10)
cowhauler posts big blind (15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to HERO [ 7d, 7c ]
mcwho folds.
WN4LIFE folds.
ImUr_Hklbry folds.
JACKALLEN folds.
JRAvila raises (55) to 55
Oiror folds.
Sounder66 folds.
HERO calls (55)
Carson2Chad folds.
cowhauler folds.
** Dealing Flop ** : [ Kc, Th, 3s ]
JRAvila bets (75)
HERO calls (75)
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 8s ]
JRAvila checks.
HERO bets (180)
JRAvila calls (180)
** Dealing River ** : [ Qd ]
JRAvila checks.
HERO checks.
** Summary **
Main Pot: 645
Board: [ Kc Th 3s 8s Qd ]

results in white: <font color="white"> he had AK </font>

[Black Aces 518]

WTF was he doing??

I play your hand the way you did here probably 1 time in 4 w/o reads. Probably 5/8 I just fold, and 1 in 8, I raise. I don't blame you for not betting the river at all. Free showdown is goot there.