Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand

[bernie]

I'm debating on whether to read this book. But after the slog I had to go through with the Iliad, I'm not sure. I'm taking a little break before reading the Odyssey.

The thread I had on here about The Iliad was quite helpful and informative and helped sustain the desire to finish that friggin' book. Which was cool. Given that, I decided to see some opinions on this book.

Sooo...

Also, a poll

Thanks

b

[Vish]

I read AS in high school and fell in love with it. I even became an Objectivist for a couple of years before coming to my senses.

I don't recommend the book--not because I disagree with Rand's ideas (though I do)--but because I don't like books where every character is so clearly demarcated "good" or "evil". It reads like propaganda.

[BreakEvenPlayer]

Atlas Shrugged is a book that people adamantly love or hate... which I believe is why you should read it. Regardless, it is very thought provoking and a solid read until the end, which is pretty cryptic and long-winded, much like this sentence.

[scott8]

The timing of this thread is funny for me because I just finished reading the book yesterday.

I still need time for reflection, but this could easily be the best book I have ever read.

I have a strong political and philosophical background which assisted in my enjoyment, but regardless of your own views the story is very intense and thought provoking.

I highly recommend reading this book.

-SC

[irishpint]

read catch 22

catch 22>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> atlas

[BreakEvenPlayer]

The thing is, many people think this book is the greatest thing ever right after they read it. I remember recommending it to all my friends. But as the years go on I find the core premises in the book more and more irrational in our world.

I love the discussion about children being raised without the concept of "original sin," or evil though. I really agree with her here.

[hobbsmann]

I found it to be quite thought provoking and enjoyable, although it can be very long winded at times.

[SmileyEH]

It's a good book. I didn't love it or hate it - The Fountainhead is much better IMO.

-SmileyEH

[Vish]

[ QUOTE ]
I found it to quite thought provoking and enjoyable, although it can be very long winded at times.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, as much as I now dislike this book, I'm glad I read it and went through that old cycle of loving then hating it. It's never bad to read something and make your own mind up over it. However, there are millions of books to read, many of which are philosophically less dogmatic and/or better works of literature.

[judgesmails]

I agree. Both Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead are worth reading. If I had to choose one, it would be The Fountainhead.

I have had more than one person tell me reading Atlas Shrugged changed their life. Not sure if that is good or bad.

[4_2_it]

Who is John Galt?

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
Who is John Galt?

[/ QUOTE ]

the guy banging Dagny Taggart.

[hobbsmann]

[ QUOTE ]
Who is John Galt?

[/ QUOTE ]
Oh and the John Galt diatribe towards the end of the book is wayyyy too long.

[jthegreat]

So apparently allegory is over your head. Doesn't mean the book sucks.

It's a great book.

[4_2_it]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Who is John Galt?

[/ QUOTE ]
Oh and the John Galt diatribe towards the end of the book is wayyyy too long.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. I admit I just scanned those 40 or so pages. I enjoyed her view on how a society that abandons capitalism will eventually deteriorate.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Who is John Galt?

[/ QUOTE ]
Oh and the John Galt diatribe towards the end of the book is wayyyy too long.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's like 10% of the book. Yuck.

[InchoateHand]

I read it and really enjoyed it before I fully understood the implications of what I was reading.

I returned to it a few years later, and was both disgusted by Ayn Rand's perspective, and bored to tears by the shoddy writing.

Also, if you've read the Fountainhead, you've already read Atlas Shrugged.

[BobboFitos]

very good book, but not ayn rand's best. fountainhead was great, and anthem is good for a quick read.

[BobboFitos]

[ QUOTE ]
It's a good book. I didn't love it or hate it - The Fountainhead is much better IMO.

-SmileyEH

[/ QUOTE ]

[rustyboy]

I am naming my first born Roark after the main character in the Fountainhead. Atlas didnt quite do that to me so much.

[DMBFan23]

it's a great book. it is very long winded and a lot of time you're like "ok, thanks, I get it, next..."

but it will defintely change the way you think about things, whether or not you agree with all the principle it presents - I, for one, don't. But I certainly look at things differently having read it.

[maryfield48]

[ QUOTE ]
So apparently allegory is over your head. Doesn't mean the book sucks.

It's a great book.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah this is a good illustration of the effect it seems to have on some people.

Grow the [censored] up. Someone not sharing your view that a work of literature (such as it is) is awesome is not sufficient grounds to question their intelligence.

[7ontheline]

[ QUOTE ]
The Fountainhead is much better IMO.



[/ QUOTE ]
Ayn Rand's philosophies sound great when you're a teenager who thinks he's smarter than everyone else and that people should respect you for it. As you get older, you realize this isn't how the world works. The Fountainhead is much better because it is more about how you should personally strive to be a great, talented person. Atlas Shrugged is kind of about how society should get out of the way of these great people and let them run things, which is ridiculous in reality because even smart people are motivated by self-interest.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The Fountainhead is much better IMO.



[/ QUOTE ]
Ayn Rand's philosophies sound great when you're a teenager who thinks he's smarter than everyone else and that people should respect you for it. As you get older, you realize this isn't how the world works. The Fountainhead is much better because it is more about how you should personally strive to be a great, talented person. THe Fountainhead is kind of about how society should get out of the way of these great people and let them run things, which is ridiculous in reality because even smart people are motivated by self-interest.

[/ QUOTE ]

You completely missed the point of these books.

[7ontheline]

How so? Care to explain what I'm missing? Obviously I'm overgeneralizing but I'd like to hear what you have to say. I haven't read these books in years, so I admit my recollections could be off.

[SmileyEH]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The Fountainhead is much better IMO.



[/ QUOTE ]
Ayn Rand's philosophies sound great when you're a teenager who thinks he's smarter than everyone else and that people should respect you for it. As you get older, you realize this isn't how the world works. The Fountainhead is much better because it is more about how you should personally strive to be a great, talented person. Atlas Shrugged is kind of about how society should get out of the way of these great people and let them run things, which is ridiculous in reality because even smart people are motivated by self-interest.

[/ QUOTE ]

The other thing is that when Rand wrote The Fountainhead she was still flesching out her personal philosophy. I agree that the Fountainhead is much more about personal growth, self esteem etc. and less about the grand implications of how she thinks people should behave and her subsequent hero worship of the top 2% or whatever. I found Fountainhead uplifting but Atlas Shrugged made me much more jaded.

-SmileyEH

[Dr. Strangelove]

There are too many great and/or important works to waste time digesting Ayn Rand's mental vomit.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
How so? Care to explain what I'm missing? Obviously I'm overgeneralizing but I'd like to hear what you have to say.

[/ QUOTE ]

1. The books are not about how the world works. We all realize this isn't how the world works. The books are about how the world should work.

2. The Fountainhead is not about getting out of anybody's way and letting them run things. And a major point, if not the major point, is that these people should look out for their own self interest. Everyone should. This is not a problem that is ignored by the philosophy. It is the cornerstone of it.

I'm not arguing the validity of the philosophy, just your take on the books seemed a little off. Maybe it was just the way you communicated it, or maybe I misunderstood what you were saying.

[ QUOTE ]
I am naming my first born Roark after the main character in the Fountainhead.

[/ QUOTE ]
Your kid better get used to hearing:
Ha Ha! Your dad's an [censored]!

[Patrick del Poker Grande]

[ QUOTE ]
I am naming my first born Roark after the main character in the Fountainhead.

[/ QUOTE ]
Not for Roark's Formulas for Stress and Strain (http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=ak5vxDOCVC&isbn=007072542X& itm=1)? This would be much better. This book rules.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
2. The Fountainhead is not about getting out of anybody's way and letting them run things.

[/ QUOTE ]

He didn't say that's what Fountainhead was about. He was referring to Atlas Shrugged.


His Fountainhead quote:
[ QUOTE ]
The Fountainhead is much better because it is more about how you should personally strive to be a great, talented person.

[/ QUOTE ]

b

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
2. The Fountainhead is not about getting out of anybody's way and letting them run things.

[/ QUOTE ]

He didn't say that's what Fountainhead was about. He was referring to Atlas Shrugged.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's what I meant. That's not what it's about.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
It's a good book. I didn't love it or hate it - The Fountainhead is much better IMO.

-SmileyEH

[/ QUOTE ]

I've noticed a few giving this opinion so I'm wondering if I do read one of Rands books, if maybe I should read Fountainhead instead.

I've also heard that she didn't use an editor which can make it tough to read. Is one book better in this regard than the other?

b

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
I've noticed a few giving this opinion so I'm wondering if I do read one of Rands books, if maybe I should read Fountainhead instead.

[/ QUOTE ]

The Fountainhead is a much better read.

[AngryCola]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I've noticed a few giving this opinion so I'm wondering if I do read one of Rands books, if maybe I should read Fountainhead instead.

[/ QUOTE ]

The Fountainhead is a much better read.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is a better read, but I think Atlas Shrugged is probably the better book.

That probably doesn't make much sense, but at least I know what I'm trying to say. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[SmileyEH]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I've noticed a few giving this opinion so I'm wondering if I do read one of Rands books, if maybe I should read Fountainhead instead.

[/ QUOTE ]

The Fountainhead is a much better read.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is a better read, but I think Atlas Shrugged is probably the better book.

[/ QUOTE ]

Disagree, but to each his own. To those wanting to read Rand, read Fountainhead first then give her other stuff a shot. The fountainhead is one of my favorite books.

-SmileyEH

[istewart]

If it wasn't the size of four Bibles, it would be better.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
It is a better read, but I think Atlas Shrugged is probably the better book.

[/ QUOTE ]

One is a better story, but the other doesn't suffer as much from lack of an editor?

b

[bobbyi]

It's a good book. I say read it. I enjoyed it a lot. It's long, but that's not a problem because you will be able to tell pretty quickly whether you are into it or not. If you hate the book after 150 pages, you are going to hate the rest of it, so you might as well stop there. If you like the book, then its length isn't a problem anyway.

I haven't read Fountainhead. People I know who are into Ayn Rand claim that it is the better book. On the other hand, it is less famous and influential, so if the reason you are reading this is for cultural literacy rather than purely for enjoyment, Atlas Shrugged might still be the better choice.

[SmileyEH]

[ QUOTE ]
f the reason you are reading this is for cultural literacy

[/ QUOTE ]

This seems like a terrible reason to read a book.

-SmileyEH

[IronDragon1]

First off I consider judging "Atlas Shrugged" (or "The Fountainhead", "Anthem", any other Ayn Rand work of fiction) as something which has to occur on two levels

The first is on its merits as a piece of fiction-and the judgement is that they suck. What can I say, cartoonishly robotic mouthpieces of objectivism for protagonists and horrible plots aren't really my thing.

In terms of the philosophy presented in the book (the straight presentation of which would make for a better book, IMHO) I certainly consider myself a fan of rational self-interest but the objectivism philosophy-at least as presented in Ayn Rand's writings-simply takes a to a level I am no comfortable basing my life on.

[SmileyEH]

It's a book, novel, literature if you will. ie; subjective. Get over yourself.

-SmileyEH

[IronDragon1]

[ QUOTE ]
It's a book, novel, literature if you will. ie; subjective. Get over yourself.

-SmileyEH

[/ QUOTE ]

Have you ever discussed your opinions with a committed objectivist?

[InchoateHand]

See, I think that was IronDragon's point. Its a breathless, pedantic screed. Its literally straight propaganda. Which would make it a) not a "book" in anything other than physical fact, b) not a novel (a very specific form), and c) only "literature" in the sense that every printed material could be so deemed.

[SmileyEH]

All I know is that I enjoyed both books as novels, and I know several other people that did as well (including my highschool english teacher who has masters in english).

-SmileyEH

[peachy]

its one of the few books i have read...it was many many many years ago though. My mom was reading it...so i read it...and i liked it ALOT...u should read it

[scott8]

Is it your position, therefore, that all philosophy is propoganda?

Rand took her philosophy and presented it in novel form.
Whether or not you agree with the particular philosophy, I found the approach refreshing.

-SC

[OrianasDaad]

Buy it. Read it. Decide if you like it. Check your premises. Take what you can from it. I have.

I consider it one of the most important books I've ever read. I also don't agree 100% with Ayn Rand.

[MyTurn2Raise]

read it...changed my life..I'd read it because it is a book that often changes people's life.

echo many of the previous thoughts

I consider myself an 'empathetic objectivist'

I like meritocracy and what it stands for, but understand the constraints that luck, upbringing, being in the right place at the right time, etc play in the world. Objectivists are just too hard core cruel at times. Using the right mix of Ayn Rand and the Dalai Lama has brought me personal happiness and balance.

I actually like "Zorba The Greek" as a better hero than Howard Roark.

FWIW, I often read the Fountainhead when waiting for a table at Hollywood Aurora.

[Dan Mezick]

I strongly suggest the Cliffnote as a companion, it will get you there (philosophically) much faster.

[bobbyi]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
f the reason you are reading this is for cultural literacy

[/ QUOTE ]

This seems like a terrible reason to read a book.

[/ QUOTE ]
When I was younger I felt this way as well. As I have gotten more mature and more humble, I've come to undertand the value of having a shared culture and society.

[MyTurn2Raise]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
f the reason you are reading this is for cultural literacy

[/ QUOTE ]

This seems like a terrible reason to read a book.

[/ QUOTE ]
When I was younger I felt this way as well. As I have gotten more mature and more humble, I've come to undertand the value of having a shared culture and society.

[/ QUOTE ]

I watch MTV while working out just so I share the culture of the young freshmen ladies I bang.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
I strongly suggest the Cliffnote as a companion, it will get you there (philosophically) much faster.

[/ QUOTE ]

I actually pondered this when I saw it available online. Especially after I read that it was unedited and raw.

b

[jackdaniels]

I read it and it changed my life. For some background into what the book covers follow this link:
capitalism.org (http://capitalism.org)

I have read many better pieces of literature in my life. Stuff that entertained me. Nothing has ever made me THINK more than this book has.

Oh, and it doesn't matter if you agree with the philosophy or not, knowing that it is out there and is an alternative to what is offered by religion/tradition is enough for me to recommend it to all.

[xorbie]

[ QUOTE ]
I read it and it changed my life. For some background into what the book covers follow this link:
capitalism.org (http://capitalism.org)

I have read many better pieces of literature in my life. Stuff that entertained me. Nothing has ever made me THINK more than this book has.

Oh, and it doesn't matter if you agree with the philosophy or not, knowing that it is out there and is an alternative to what is offered by religion/tradition is enough for me to recommend it to all.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ugh. I think people who believe that Objectivism is deep philosophy are generally very annoying people. They are also wrong. Horribly, horribly wrong.

i never read AS. but i loved The Fountainhead. definitely reccomend Fountainhead.

i thought Anthem sucked. but read Fountainhead

[HDPM]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It is a better read, but I think Atlas Shrugged is probably the better book.

[/ QUOTE ]

One is a better story, but the other doesn't suffer as much from lack of an editor?

b

[/ QUOTE ]


Atlas is a more complete presentation of her philosophy. Foutainhead was when rand was younger. I can see why some people say they prefer foutainhead. However, if you are going to read one, read Atlas. Reading both is better. Atlas can be clumsy in a literary sense, particularly the device of the galt speech people have mentioned which is a long and not very subtle way to state the philosophy. But I'm not that literary or literate or whatever like John Cole, so what do I know.

[Leo99]

I listened to the Odyssey on tape and it was excellent. No difficulties with the hard to pronounce words that slow down your enjoyment of the story. I highly recommend it.

[Cry Me A River]

Ayn Rand is like Anne Rice.

If you read Interview With A Vampire or Atlas Shrugged when you're 15, it's the best book ever written and it can take you a long, long time to get past that view.

If you read them when you're a slightly more, uh, worldly you realise they're pretty superficial and not particularly original...

Still worth reading if only to enhance your ability to make fun of the goths/objectivists!

[scott8]

Well, I'm 26 and just read the book.

I have a BA in political science and philosophy.

I have a law degree.

I have been to over 60 countries.

I have taught high school in the inner city.

I think I'm pretty damn "worldly", and furthermore pretty damn smart.

I likey the book. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[7ontheline]

[ QUOTE ]


1. The books are not about how the world works. We all realize this isn't how the world works. The books are about how the world should work.

2. Atlas shrugged is not about getting out of anybody's way and letting them run things. And a major point, if not the major point, is that these people should look out for their own self interest. Everyone should. This is not a problem that is ignored by the philosophy. It is the cornerstone of it.

I'm not arguing the validity of the philosophy, just your take on the books seemed a little off. Maybe it was just the way you communicated it, or maybe I misunderstood what you were saying.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I realize that Ayn Rand was espousing her view of how the world ought to be. I didn't communicate it that well, and I wrote the wrong title in there somewhere. Anyway, I just felt that the whole philosophy was terribly elitist and somewhat juvenile. The Fountainhead seemed much more tolerable to me because it seemed to describe what she thought people should aspire to. That's fine. Atlas Shrugged just seemed far too absolute to me and I really didn't think her views worked in a larger, cultural/social sense. They seemed better applied on a smaller, more personal level.

To me, it was the same problem that communism had - sure it would be nice if everyone worked for the state and the whole of society functioned together. Obviously, not going to happen. It would be nice also if people all apsired to be great in the way Howard Roark is so that everyone's self-interest summed up to benefit the collective group - also, not going to happen.

[IbrakeFORrivers]

I enjoyed it. Well, until she found the "colony" (Don't want to reveal too much). THen it got boring and i quit it.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
I listened to the Odyssey on tape and it was excellent. No difficulties with the hard to pronounce words that slow down your enjoyment of the story. I highly recommend it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I read the Odyssey in high school and remembered liking it. Which is why I got it with the Iliad as a set. It's not hard to follow but imo, the Iliad sucked. I found the story behind it and the history of translations more interesting than the story itself.

b