Hands to raise with; hands to call with...

[ElSapo]

I think my raising standards are too predictable. And, I tend to raise with the same hands from the same positions. AA-JJ, AK, AQ, the usual suspects. Folded to me, I'll raise with AJ, but for the most part, that's about it. And while I'm not sure the folks at party are taking notes and exploiting (they may be, but I'm unsure), I wonder how much I'm giving up. Anyways, so I had a few questions -

Jones' WLLHE says to raise in LP with A8s, A9o, pairs down to 88. To me, this seems too much - these are limping hands for me (and I'd probably simply muck A9o). Perhaps I'm confused on the purpose of the raise. Am I looking to tie people to the pot if I flop a set or flush draw? Am I figuring to have the best hand? Just wanting to take control? I can't see continuing with 88 very far unless I hit a set or it just seems really passive. Maybe I'm giving up way too much?

Why indicate (specifics I forget, but in general I think I have it correct) calling in some spots with small pairs (say, EP down to 66, MP down to 55, LP to 22, or something) but not with others? For me, all of these, to be played aggressively, must hit a set. I don't expect 55 to stand up from any position against any decent number of limpers.

I just wonder how much I'm giving up by not rasing with a wider range of hands in LP, and how much I lose by calling with small pairs from early or mid position.

Jones also advocates calling with 99 if there's a raise up front (but doesn't specify there be many callers). I don't know that I want to take on a MP raiser, possibly heads up, with 99 - my hand may be good, it may not, and the problem seems like I wouldn't know.

Any thoughts on these? And if I misinterpret any of Jones' book, please let me know…

El Sapo

[Rockfish]

Excellent questions. I wonder the same things at times.

As far as raising standards being too predictable, it's only predictable to you. Most of your 0.5/1 Party players are not paying attention. As long as your raising standards are higher than theirs and stick pretty close to party lines you are OK. If you find you are too predictable go ahead and raise with 9Ts in EP once in a while if it makes you happy. They probably won't notice as you won't show it down often enough to affect any image you might have.

I'm with you on A9o unless I can open raise in LP against blinds who fold too much. When's the last time you saw that. The rest of the time you raise with those hands to build a pot in case you hit. Against the "Any Ace from Any Place" players 88 won't hold up if an Ace flops and oftentimes you'll get random overcards pairing up Kings, Queens and Jacks as well. If you don't flop the set how do you play from then on? Exactly.

In a game in which you can win the blinds or in which your opponents are not particularly tenacious post-flop you can open raise with a wider variety of hands in LP. If they are going to call regardless and hand on come hell or high water I don't think this is a winning play. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong.

Rockfish

[bernie]

too tight of standards. how do you know if opponents are catching on? the action you recieve when you raise.

the later the position the more hands you can raise with. but now it's just a matter of whether youre open raising or raising a bunch of limpers. with limpers, i dont tend to raise offsuit hands, but ill raise all sorts of mid to high suited connectors. not all the time, but quite a bit. also factor in how they play postflop.

much of it depends on the game texture. along with some other factors

start by loosening up in LP or the button. then expand from there.

there are more reasons to raise than just to eliminate players. im suprised at the tables when many players think this is the only reason to raise

b

ps...there's nothing wrong with raising preflop and folding the flop if you have to. you also can get some funny looks when doing this

[Robk]

Deception should be the last thing on your mind in these games. You should be openraising with almost any playable hand if it's folded to you in LP. And not raising in LP after several limpers with a hand like AJs is a big mistake. Raising with A9o in the same situation would be a big mistake. Jones is probably talking about openraising or something; I've never read the book. I would only coldcall a raise with 99 if I was playing for set value in a loose game. If it was an MP opneraiser, I'm not playing for the set, and am going to make it 3 bets every time. Small pairs in EP are definitely profitable in the right game.

[AceHigh]

"Jones' WLLHE says to raise in LP with A8s, A9o, pairs down to 88. "

I agree if you are the first person to enter the pot.

If you want to vary your raises I suggest this:
1) if first in the pot, after early position, raise with most hands you would limp with, especially if unsuited and/or you have a decent chance of stealing the blinds or getting the hand heads up.
2) in late position, raise 2 or more limpers with any hand that is a 20 or more on Black Jack and suited. And raise any playable hand if you are first in.

"Jones also advocates calling with 99 if there's a raise up front "

That's about right. Somewhere between JJ/TT/99 is probably where you want to draw the line. If you don't think you can play 99 well against a preflop raiser, then fold.

If you don't feel comfortable with a situation, folding is probably the best play, preflop. Your are only giving up a lot of EV with the very best hands.

"how much I lose by calling with small pairs from early or mid position"

The smallest pairs, 22/33/44, are pretty close to neutral EV, it probably is best to save them for late position, except for the loosest, most passive games.