Dead man's hand...

[avisco01]

I'm not totally sure if I should post this here, but I'll give it a shot. Some friends of mine get together every week and we play a small $15 buy-in NL hold'em tournament. The game is usually made up of around 12-16 people. We have had occasions where we'd have 10 or fewer and play a "technical" one-table tournament, but for the most part we generally have two tables with roughly 7 players per table. Being that its such a small "multi-table" tournament, I figure its ok to post this here. If not, I apologize...

Last night, very early on in the tournament I pick up Ah8h on the button. Seven players at the table, all fold to the CO, who I consider the best player at the tournament. He raises 3 times the blind, blinds were 20/40. He had roughly 1300 in chips, I had about 1200. I called figuring he could be trying to steal the blinds, and or buy the button. The blinds folded.

Flop: As 8d 7h

He bets the pot, I call

Turn: 4c

He checks, I bet roughly half the pot, he goes all-in, I called instantly. He shows me a set of fours, the river was a blank, and he takes me out.

A few people comforted me by telling me it was a "bad beat." I already know what I think, I just wanted to get others opinions, thanks.

I consider this bad luck more than a bad beat. He played it reasonably at each opportunity, and when the (majority of) money went in he was way ahead.

I'm too lazy to do the pot-size math, but when he check-raises you all-in on the turn, I think you need to start seriously considering that you're beat, since it would appear that you're pot committed at that point. If you are committed and he realizes that you basically have to call, I think the only hands you're going to see that you beat are A7 and A4.

I think at 20 40 you can let him get away w/ that when all you have is A7. I think your play after the flop wasn't too bad, however, a raise might have been good here on the flop since AT-AK are very realistic and you would have gotten action from them.

[playtitleist]

I would raise his flop bet. You are ahead of everything but AA, 88 and 77 here. AA and 88 not likely because of your A8 holding. Straight draws are possible, but most times he is on a bluff or AX, where X is higher than your 8. If it's a bluff he'll lay it down. If he's on Ax he'll call and you'll have to be careful with any turn/river other than 5,3 or 2. He'll also call with an OESD.

The all-in over the top with the 4 should have sounded the bells as OESD just made it. He would have to be a VERY ballsy player to push anything you beat.

Muck it.

Define your hand on the flop and don't be bummed if he folds here. Your hand is not likely to improve, but most cards can improve anything he calls you with.

[se2schul]

[ QUOTE ]
A few people comforted me by telling me it was a "bad beat." I already know what I think, I just wanted to get others opinions, thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

It wasn't a bad beat. He pushed with the best hand and you called him. Had you guys been allin on the flop where you had the best hand, it would've been a bad beat.

BTW, when you have the best hand (or think you do), you have to re-raise the flop. What did you think he had after the flop? You should also include what range of hands you put him on on the flop and on the turn since we have no info on the villain except that you think he's the favourite at the tournament.

[avisco01]

Actually, I consider myself the favorite, and I'm not being cocky as most usually do as well. He is certainly one of the better players however. I was HOPING he had AJ or better. Thats the problem, I put him on only a 3 hand range, AK, AQ, AJ, and never deviated from that, even when his actions on the turn should have made me realize how much trouble I was in. The hand should have never reached fourth street either. I basically allowed him to draw out on me when I had a very strong hand. Playtitleist hit the nail on the head. I was trying to explain to a friend of mine that this was in no way a bad beat, and he seemingly didn't want to hear. In fact, I didn't even get unlucky. Had he called a big raise on the flop and then hit the 4 I would consider it a bad beat. He was simply continuing his preflop aggression, which is perfectly reasonable, and which I was expecting. My play is to raise his flop bet and be thankful that I won an extra bet. I stupidly tried to win more on later streets when the only outcomes possible were a) having him fold to me on the turn unimproved, or b) he draws out on me on the turn and basically takes all my chips. This is why raising on the flop is the only play. Had I had AA, slowplaying is STILL not the best play as a straight draw could come in on the turn if I'm not careful. However, I wouldn't argue against slowplaying a set of aces on this flop, even with the presence of the 7 and 8. I called his all-in on the turn instantly as well. Basically, I had a terrible brain fart during this hand and played it about as bad as one can play aces up, pairing both hole cards. I turned a great situation into a disasterous one, and I have no one to blame for it but myself. No bad beat, no bad luck, just poor poker.

[Little Lew]

I would reraise the flop and make him make the decision. I don't think this is so much bad luck as letting him in the hand cheaply.

[ QUOTE ]
I would raise his flop bet. You are ahead of everything but AA, 88 and 77 here. AA and 88 not likely because of your A8 holding. Straight draws are possible, but most times he is on a bluff or AX, where X is higher than your 8. If it's a bluff he'll lay it down. If he's on Ax he'll call and you'll have to be careful with any turn/river other than 5,3 or 2. He'll also call with an OESD.

The all-in over the top with the 4 should have sounded the bells as OESD just made it. He would have to be a VERY ballsy player to push anything you beat.

Define your hand on the flop and don't be bummed if he folds here. Your hand is not likely to improve, but most cards can improve anything he calls you with.

[/ QUOTE ]

What he said.
<edit>
Sorry - I was writing while the last three posts were made. Didn't mean to pile on.

[se2schul]

I think that range of 3 hands is much too narrow.
I think that there are pocket pairs that he could make the 3BB PF raise with, maybe some suited connectors like KQ too.

Good analysis though...

[avisco01]

No problem...is this piling on?

[avisco01]

Agreed, I played it terribly and wasn't thinking. I closed my mind and put him on the hand I wanted him to have, not the hands he could possibly have. I suck.