11R hand...Against Aggressive Borderline Maniac

[ZBTHorton]

This hand is right after the break in the 11r against one of the chipleaders in the tournament. We're about 10 minutes in from break and he's played almost every hand.

2 of last 3 hands he's overpushed the turn or river into smaller stacks getting them to fold. Yada yada.

PokerStars Game #2902565085: Tournament #14116069, Hold'em No Limit - Level V (75/150) - 2005/10/26 - 23:22:45 (ET)
Table '14116069 15' Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: ZBTHorton1 (6650 in chips)
Seat 2: apestyles (11450 in chips)
Seat 3: dedpair (7085 in chips)
Seat 4: milkshakeman (10950 in chips)
Seat 5: bossmanjap (11797 in chips)
Seat 6: VisionAAA (29180 in chips)
Seat 7: GIVMEYURCHPS (15400 in chips)
Seat 8: ToB-King (7467 in chips)
Seat 9: killa187 (11600 in chips)
ZBTHorton1: posts small blind 75
apestyles: posts big blind 150
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ZBTHorton1 [3h 3d]
dedpair: calls 150
milkshakeman: folds
bossmanjap: calls 150
VisionAAA: raises 300 to 450
GIVMEYURCHPS: folds
ToB-King: calls 450
killa187: folds
ZBTHorton1: calls 375
apestyles: folds
dedpair: calls 300
bossmanjap: folds
*** FLOP *** [9d 5d 8s]
ZBTHorton1: bets 1800
dedpair: folds
VisionAAA: calls 1800
ToB-King: folds
*** TURN *** [9d 5d 8s] [5s]
ZBTHorton1: checks
VisionAAA: checks
*** RIVER *** [9d 5d 8s 5s] [2h]
ZBTHorton1: checks
VisionAAA: bets 26930 and is all-in
ZBTHorton1: calls 4400 and is all-in
*** SHOW DOWN ***
VisionAAA: shows [Js Ts] (a pair of Fives)
ZBTHorton1: shows [3h 3d] (two pair, Fives and Threes)
ZBTHorton1 collected 14500 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 14500 | Rake 0
Board [9d 5d 8s 5s 2h]
Seat 1: ZBTHorton1 (small blind) showed [3h 3d] and won (14500) with two pair, Fives and Threes
Seat 2: apestyles (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: dedpair folded on the Flop
Seat 4: milkshakeman folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: bossmanjap folded before Flop
Seat 6: VisionAAA showed [Js Ts] and lost with a pair of Fives
Seat 7: GIVMEYURCHPS folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: ToB-King folded on the Flop
Seat 9: killa187 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

I'll preface this with a couple of comments.

#1. I felt I had a pretty stone cold read on him when he checked through the turn. I *probably* should have bet the turn as well, but felt I was probably getting a call anyway. I had already decided a non-scare card and I was calling his bet on the river(that I knew was coming).

#2. This is being posted because a friend of mine feels its the "worst play ever", and any "world class player" will think the HH is made up. *shrug*

#3. We are far more concerned with your analysis of the final call, than the check on the turn or river. Although those comments are welcome(I don't claim to have played the hand perfectly).

#4. Am I the only one that leads out the flop here? I do this alot in deeper stacked tournaments. Has always produced pretty decent results.

[Exitonly]

you had a read, and you had a hand that could beat A high, looks good.

[ZBTHorton]

Quick response.

By scare card.

I mean any card completing the flush, or any Q.
Thanks for being an insomniac Exit.

[Exitonly]

heh, not an insomniac tonight.. just woke up really really early, after passing out really really early.

Anyways, if a Q was a 'scare card' wouldn't a 7 have been too?

i dunno what river cards specifically i'd like this play with, but the 2h is sure one of them.

[ZBTHorton]

Well. I took about 3 seconds to check the turn. And kinda put him on J-10d.

I guess that's the reason I say that. You are right tho, 7 would be one as well.

#4 No you're not the only one, I do this myself often too. Especially with this kind of board you figure you're only behind to a higher PP. Someone holding a high card with 8 kicker might fold to your big bet. The only problem with low PP's is that almost every card is a scare card and has highly possible hit one of your opponents. When only the PFR calls (and not raises) your bet, I figure you're ahead of him. With the board pairing up you might have bet the turn for value, but since you knew that he would bet the river you played it well. And luckily no scare card fell on the river otherwise you might have had a hard time calling his AI right?

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
you had a read, and you had a hand that could beat A high, looks good.

[/ QUOTE ]

[JustPlayingSmart]

Do you call if he raises your flop bet enough to put you all in? Because I think most decent players would do that with an open-ended straight draw, 2 overcards, and a backdoor flush draw vs a donk bet?

[Simplistic]

betting pattern looks like you have air/draw by checking turn. same thing applies by villain's checkbehind on the turn, with an overpair or TP he bets turn to charge for draw rather than checkbehind. 2h doesnt' help anybody, he puts you on a draw/weak holding because you checked turn and river. this isn't such a standard call, but if you look through the action it makes sense. well played.

[ZBTHorton]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you call if he raises your flop bet enough to put you all in? Because I think most decent players would do that with an open-ended straight draw, 2 overcards, and a backdoor flush draw vs a donk bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I insta muck.

[ZBTHorton]

[ QUOTE ]
#4 No you're not the only one, I do this myself often too. Especially with this kind of board you figure you're only behind to a higher PP. Someone holding a high card with 8 kicker might fold to your big bet. The only problem with low PP's is that almost every card is a scare card and has highly possible hit one of your opponents. When only the PFR calls (and not raises) your bet, I figure you're ahead of him. With the board pairing up you might have bet the turn for value, but since you knew that he would bet the river you played it well. And luckily no scare card fell on the river otherwise you might have had a hard time calling his AI right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Right.