Pandemonium...NOT a boring hand

BB is 39/27/0.9
MP is 50/20/1
Button is 44/10/1.2

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter (http://www.pokerhand.org)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises</font>, Button calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, BB calls, MP calls, Button calls.

Flop: (12 SB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button caps</font>, Hero calls, BB calls, MP calls.

Turn: (14 BB) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, MP calls, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, MP calls, Button calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, BB calls, MP calls, Button calls.

Was set over set a possibility on the flop?? If you think so, take a look at this river:

River: (30 BB) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, MP folds, <font color="#CC3333">Button 3-bets</font>, Hero ?

[kidcolin]

I'm not sure if I like your turn play. You positive it's getting 3-bet by BB? I think I woulda 3-bet myself. I probably would've led, too, but I think I like the check-raise due to MP.

I'm guessing you lost to quads. But I'm not folding there. Dude could have Q7 or some crap. I'd probably just cap and pray.

[SlyGuy]

Interesting. I bet you see quads here.

[imported_leader]

I'd cap that way the hand will be over faster.

[ArturiusX]

Cap, Q7/Q4 are all reasonable hands.

[imitation]

Did you miss the memo, don't post crap. HEY GUYS I HAVE TOP FULLHOUSE AND THERE IS LOTS OF ACTION BUT BETTING IS CAPPED AT 4 BETS SHOULD I PUT LOTS OF BETS IN EVERY STREET??? PS GUYS THIS WILL EFFECT MY WINRATE ABOUT AS MUCH AS HOW I PLAY FLOPPED ROYAL FLUSHES.

[ArturiusX]

[ QUOTE ]
Did you miss the memo, don't post crap. HEY GUYS I HAVE TOP FULLHOUSE AND THERE IS LOTS OF ACTION BUT BETTING IS CAPPED AT 4 BETS SHOULD I PUT LOTS OF BETS IN EVERY STREET??? PS GUYS THIS WILL EFFECT MY WINRATE ABOUT AS MUCH AS HOW I PLAY FLOPPED ROYAL FLUSHES.

[/ QUOTE ]

What the [censored]? Get lost, troll.

[imitation]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Did you miss the memo, don't post crap. HEY GUYS I HAVE TOP FULLHOUSE AND THERE IS LOTS OF ACTION BUT BETTING IS CAPPED AT 4 BETS SHOULD I PUT LOTS OF BETS IN EVERY STREET??? PS GUYS THIS WILL EFFECT MY WINRATE ABOUT AS MUCH AS HOW I PLAY FLOPPED ROYAL FLUSHES.

[/ QUOTE ]

What the [censored]? Get lost, troll.

[/ QUOTE ]

Whilst my tone was over board this hand does not need to be posted on here.

[ QUOTE ]
I'd cap that way the hand will be over faster.

[/ QUOTE ]
LOL. I Love it!

[ QUOTE ]
Did you miss the memo, don't post crap. HEY GUYS I HAVE TOP FULLHOUSE AND THERE IS LOTS OF ACTION BUT BETTING IS CAPPED AT 4 BETS SHOULD I PUT LOTS OF BETS IN EVERY STREET??? PS GUYS THIS WILL EFFECT MY WINRATE ABOUT AS MUCH AS HOW I PLAY FLOPPED ROYAL FLUSHES.

[/ QUOTE ]
Interesting....but how do you really feel?

[ArturiusX]

I disagree completely. This is an interestingish hand because we're talking about monster percentages. Lets be honest, what hands are the villians going nuts with on each street?

Believe it or not, its a staple poker hand about dealing with big betting. This situation does come up every few sessions, and the money amount we're talking is worth posting.

Fold, he's got quads /images/graemlins/grin.gif

I think you just call, dont' cap. This seems weak/tight but keep in mind this guy has aggression of .9 and he hasn't let his foot off the gas once after the flop hit him. Ever opportunity he's bet or raised. This feels like a set over set and I think you just call here. I know it's possible that's the worst AA ever played, or maybe a *creative* 74 or q7s, but I think you're seeing quads more than half the time here. Call it.

[Drontier]

MP mucked his KQ/AQ/(JJ maybe), bb has 7-7 and button has 4-4? O god. lol.

[Drontier]

results plz?

[joker122]

when button doesn't cap the turn but 3bets that river the only logical hand is 44. if he's acting up, ok, but we still have to worry bb who just raised the river. if he caps (and it looks like he will), they both need to not have quads 1 time in 9. i think its a fold.

[baronzeus]

just cap. it matters but i think you are ahead of both of them 33% of the time when they have A7-72.

[baronzeus]

[ QUOTE ]
when button doesn't cap the turn but 3bets that river the only logical hand is 44. if he's acting up, ok, but we still have to worry bb who just raised the river. if he caps (and it looks like he will), they both need to not have quads 1 time in 9. i think its a fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

what about 7x for both of them?

The pot seems terribly big to be folding in the face of quads....

[Drontier]

baronzeus,
button cold caps with a 7 on the flop? BB shuts down on the turn with a 7 after getting 3 bet then 3 bets both of you? the 4 has to have helped him.

[baronzeus]

[ QUOTE ]
baronzeus,
button cold caps with a 7 on the flop? BB shuts down on the turn with a 7 after getting 3 bet then 3 bets both of you? the 4 has to have helped him.

[/ QUOTE ]


yeah i ignored the flop. given that i just call.

[joker122]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
when button doesn't cap the turn but 3bets that river the only logical hand is 44. if he's acting up, ok, but we still have to worry bb who just raised the river. if he caps (and it looks like he will), they both need to not have quads 1 time in 9. i think its a fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

what about 7x for both of them?

[/ QUOTE ]

so after it's been raised and 3bet preflop, the bb raises the flop with middle pair, then the button caps the flop, also with middle pair? keep in mind these guys' AF are .9 and 1.2, respectively.

if you look at the action and consider what odds you're getting to showdown on the river a fold really isn't that crazy, even with 30+ BBs in the pot.

[Victor]

[ QUOTE ]
i think its a fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

Soon.

[redbeard]

i'd cap. i'm just not good enough to give a guy credit for quads. i do see the merits of what others have said about calling, but i the heat of the battle especially if you are multitabling i think i would reflexively raise. what the heck it's worth the price of admission to see quads anyway right? i've spent more money on less entertaining stuff.

[etizzle]

fun hand, easy cap

[etizzle]

YOU WANT TO FOLD THIS??!!!111??!?!?ELEVEN!!

tell me you are serious, i will have a good laugh

results! you're killin me!

[Lmn55d]

can I get those drugs?

[Danenania]

Don't like your turn play at all. I would lead it. Failing that I would check/3-bet when you get the chance.

River, hmm... is either Button or BB calling PF with Q7s or 74s? Q7s perhaps. Actually I think Qc7c is the most likely hand for BB given his flop raise. But look at Button's turn call/river 3-bet. And look at his aggression numbers. How many hands do you have on these guys? You are getting 18 to 1 immediate, though of course BB will cap the times he has 77 so you are really a bit worse off than that.

Tough one. It's really only an issue of how well you trust your numbers/how often Button is insane. The thing I can't get past is that insane/tilting people don't become sane on the turn then go insane on the river again after a card that could not have helped them hits. Yeah, folding is best. Of course it's not a big deal to call. While playing I wouldn't be able to think through this quickly enough to fold. Capping would be idiotic though, truly.

Edit: also note that only one of them can have Q7s.

[Megenoita]

Ed Miller said that we SS players don't lose nearly enough with our sets. Imagine our queen's full /images/graemlins/smile.gif.

rofl...wow you're weak/tight.

go 9 bets with no cap. then I think when he 10-bets me.

Then I make it 20. rofl, quads. WOW DO YOU KNOW HOW BAD THESE PLAYERS ARE?? He's got 72o here 99% of the time.

Go to the felt here and it's not close.

[DMBFan23]

[ QUOTE ]
rofl...wow you're weak/tight.

go 9 bets with no cap. then I think when he 10-bets me.

Then I make it 20. rofl, quads. WOW DO YOU KNOW HOW BAD THESE PLAYERS ARE?? He's got 72o here 99% of the time.

Go to the felt here and it's not close.

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/heart.gif /images/graemlins/heart.gif /images/graemlins/heart.gif /images/graemlins/heart.gif

[Danenania]

LOL. Your avatar should be more along the rawwwrraise transformer lines though. Something that better conveys your bottled rage and small penis size.

[Drontier]

[ QUOTE ]
Don't like your turn play at all. I would lead it. Failing that I would check/3-bet when you get the chance.

River, hmm... is either Button or BB calling PF with Q7s or 74s? Q7s perhaps. Actually I think Qc7c is the most likely hand for BB given his flop raise. But look at Button's turn call/river 3-bet. And look at his aggression numbers. How many hands do you have on these guys? You are getting 18 to 1 immediate, though of course BB will cap the times he has 77 so you are really a bit worse off than that.

Tough one. It's really only an issue of how well you trust your numbers/how often Button is insane. The thing I can't get past is that insane/tilting people don't become sane on the turn then go insane on the river again after a card that could not have helped them hits. Yeah, folding is best. Of course it's not a big deal to call. While playing I wouldn't be able to think through this quickly enough to fold. Capping would be idiotic though, truly.

Edit: also note that only one of them can have Q7s.

[/ QUOTE ]This was EXACTLY my thought process. A player suddenly waking up after shutting down. Can he have anything besides 4-4? But the one part I disagree here, is that I would still cap it (if I don't fold) feeling 95% behind, because if I don't the other guy is going to everytime he has me beat. I 'm not positive, but it feels like its getting capped anyways unless he has Q7(and even then quite likely)

[B Dids]

Maybe it's just me not getting hip to "fast playign is the new slowplaying", but the flop feels more like Q7 than 44.

I think you're good often enough to cap here, but it's a crying cap. Based on their numbers, the players seem like the type to get more out of line, and you don't need to be facing quads here. If you have better reads on them than this (which would be nice, just posting the numbers is pretty meaningless IMO), I guess you can call.

[imitation]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Don't like your turn play at all. I would lead it. Failing that I would check/3-bet when you get the chance.

River, hmm... is either Button or BB calling PF with Q7s or 74s? Q7s perhaps. Actually I think Qc7c is the most likely hand for BB given his flop raise. But look at Button's turn call/river 3-bet. And look at his aggression numbers. How many hands do you have on these guys? You are getting 18 to 1 immediate, though of course BB will cap the times he has 77 so you are really a bit worse off than that.

Tough one. It's really only an issue of how well you trust your numbers/how often Button is insane. The thing I can't get past is that insane/tilting people don't become sane on the turn then go insane on the river again after a card that could not have helped them hits. Yeah, folding is best. Of course it's not a big deal to call. While playing I wouldn't be able to think through this quickly enough to fold. Capping would be idiotic though, truly.

Edit: also note that only one of them can have Q7s.

[/ QUOTE ]This was EXACTLY my thought process. A player suddenly waking up after shutting down. Can he have anything besides 4-4? But the one part I disagree here, is that I would still cap it (if I don't fold) feeling 95% behind, because if I don't the other guy is going to everytime he has me beat. I 'm not positive, but it feels like its getting capped anyways unless he has Q7(and even then quite likely)

[/ QUOTE ]


He has a 7 with a weak kicker, that is a much more logical read than 44

[Danenania]

Yeah because it's very logical for him to coldcap the flop with middle pair-weak kicker... /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[Drontier]

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe it's just me not getting hip to "fast playign is the new slowplaying", but the flop feels more like Q7 than 44.

I think you're good often enough to cap here, but it's a crying cap. Based on their numbers, the players seem like the type to get more out of line, and you don't need to be facing quads here. If you have better reads on them than this (which would be nice, just posting the numbers is pretty meaningless IMO), I guess you can call.

[/ QUOTE ]Umm...both would be slowplayable hands. I'm pretty sure a player that waits to raise top 2 here on the turn, would equally likely raise bottom set. And notice how each player only put in one raise on the flop. Nobody went "crazy." And for who? There are plenty of players on pp who just jam 77 or 44 on this flop. I'm sure you know this from your experience. Btw from their stats, are you sure they even know what slowplaying is? This is a hand where I'm struggling to see if we have ONE player beat, let alone both. I'll admit there are two combinations for bbs hand (Q7s, or 77) You lose half the time, because I can't see button having anything different than 4-4. Study the action.

[Drontier]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah because it's very logical for him to coldcap the flop with middle pair-weak kicker... /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[/ QUOTE ]exactly.

[Danenania]

[ QUOTE ]
But the one part I disagree here, is that I would still cap it (if I don't fold) feeling 95% behind, because if I don't the other guy is going to everytime he has me beat. I 'm not positive, but it feels like its getting capped anyways unless he has Q7(and even then quite likely)

[/ QUOTE ]

This makes no sense. Even if BB will cap Q7 99% of the time just calling would still be better, because you will save a bet that other 1% of the time.

[Drontier]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But the one part I disagree here, is that I would still cap it (if I don't fold) feeling 95% behind, because if I don't the other guy is going to everytime he has me beat. I 'm not positive, but it feels like its getting capped anyways unless he has Q7(and even then quite likely)

[/ QUOTE ]

This makes no sense. Even if BB will cap Q7 99% of the time just calling would still be better, because you will save a bet that other 1% of the time.

[/ QUOTE ] Lets assume 45% of the time, bb has Q7. 45% of the time has the one combination of 7-7. and 10% he has such a weird hand I can't guess it. He is capping 90% of the time, so why not cap it when he has wacko hand too? We know every hand is going to showdown already. And we are assuming we are winning over 10% of the time here otherwise we wouldnt be calling anyways right?(cuz the best choice is folding! :P)Not that I could get myself to fold.

[Danenania]

[ QUOTE ]
He is capping 90% of the time, so why not cap it when he has wacko hand too? We know every hand is going to showdown already.

[/ QUOTE ]

??? Why do you want to pay more to go to showdown than you have to? You are behind button very close to 100% of the time. BB might not cap it. If BB doesn't cap it, you lose less money. It makes a difference.

[Drontier]

if we truly believed it was close to 100% of the time, we would be folding.

[Danenania]

Sigh... I'm giving up.

[joker122]

are you saying that just becasue the pot's really big and you're never supposed to fold in a big pot? just consider the odds of showing down for christ's sake - it's not like calling one more on the river in a huge pot where you only have to be right 1 in 20 or even 30 times.

Notice that the button did not cap the turn, but 3-bet the river. Combine this with the fact that he called a raise cold pre-flop and I can't think of any hand but 44 that he could have. The BB's play is consistent with a monster: 77 and Q7s are the leading candidates. Since we're talking about 40+ vpips here and a huge pot, I don't think folding is an option since there's always an outside chance they're not playing logically. I like a call and don't like a raise on the river.

-v

[sthief09]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Did you miss the memo, don't post crap. HEY GUYS I HAVE TOP FULLHOUSE AND THERE IS LOTS OF ACTION BUT BETTING IS CAPPED AT 4 BETS SHOULD I PUT LOTS OF BETS IN EVERY STREET??? PS GUYS THIS WILL EFFECT MY WINRATE ABOUT AS MUCH AS HOW I PLAY FLOPPED ROYAL FLUSHES.

[/ QUOTE ]

What the [censored]? Get lost, troll.

[/ QUOTE ]


uhh troll? no

[sthief09]

sorry, you can't fold top boat

cap it. the reason for this is because better hands will cap while worse hands might just call. you're going 4 bets no matter what if you're behind and no one is folding to your cap. you gain a bet when you somehow win but lose one when you're behind.

[sthief09]

[ QUOTE ]
when button doesn't cap the turn but 3bets that river the only logical hand is 44. if he's acting up, ok, but we still have to worry bb who just raised the river. if he caps (and it looks like he will), they both need to not have quads 1 time in 9. i think its a fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

when we're looking at a grand total of 2 combinations that beat us, the donk factor becomes magnified

The only reason I can see to cap is to cash in on your opponents' misclick equity.

-v

[sthief09]

[ QUOTE ]
can I get those drugs?

[/ QUOTE ]


considering it's going to cost him 2 more when behind, it's actually damn close to a fold. if we had a specific read I could find a fold. without knowing if they're tilting, colluding, go crazy in huge pots, etc, you can't fold when 2 combinations beat us

[NLSoldier]

[ QUOTE ]
rofl...wow you're weak/tight.

go 9 bets with no cap. then I think when he 10-bets me.

Then I make it 20. rofl, quads. WOW DO YOU KNOW HOW BAD THESE PLAYERS ARE?? He's got 72o here 99% of the time.

Go to the felt here and it's not close.

[/ QUOTE ]

Damn, took the words right outta my mouth. Now that we have this gimmick account I dont think I even need to post anymore. Awesome.

[Drontier]

[ QUOTE ]
sorry, you can't fold top boat

cap it. the reason for this is because better hands will cap while worse hands might just call. you're going 4 bets no matter what if you're behind and no one is folding to your cap. you gain a bet when you somehow win but lose one when you're behind.

[/ QUOTE ]YES!!! thats exactly what I said!! :grins:

[zephed]

[ QUOTE ]
Soon.

[/ QUOTE ]
NOW!

[redbeard]

results please i'm dying here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[baronzeus]

i bet BB had AA

[B Dids]

I considered that, but his agg factor looks lowish, even given his high vpip to be going THAT nuts with AA.

[oreogod]

[ QUOTE ]
i bet BB had AA

[/ QUOTE ]

Only if he's a [censored]tard

[Monty Cantsin]

[ QUOTE ]

cap it. the reason for this is because better hands will cap while worse hands might just call. you're going 4 bets no matter what if you're behind and no one is folding to your cap. you gain a bet when you somehow win [and it costs the same when you're behind] (my edit).

[/ QUOTE ]

This is extremely good advice.

I edited the last sentence to make it more clear, but when I read this it seemed so completely obvious and true and yet somehow I hadn't thought of it.

/mc

[ QUOTE ]
when button doesn't cap the turn but 3bets that river the only logical hand is 44. if he's acting up, ok, but we still have to worry bb who just raised the river. if he caps (and it looks like he will), they both need to not have quads 1 time in 9. i think its a fold.

[/ QUOTE ]



are you freaking retarded fold?????????? you have to call this down with a pot that size "HAVE TO" anything else would be retarded

Sneakychicken

Against my will, I capped. BB called and button FOLDED! BB showed J4d and MHIG. It's amazing what people are capable of sometimes.

[ QUOTE ]
Against my will, I capped. BB called and button FOLDED! BB showed J4d and MHIG. It's amazing what people are capable of sometimes.

[/ QUOTE ]

I need to start playing 10/20.

[ QUOTE ]
I need to start playing 10/20.

[/ QUOTE ]
I assure you....this is NOT a normal hand.

[sthief09]

tilt is a wonderful thing

Man, chill out.

OP has a legitamite question, bro.

If this hand was HU and there was no cap, i'd simply ask the villain if he wanted to match my stack after I nineteen bet him on the river, so, I think you're never wrong to raise and re raise here, and the one time out of 1,000 you run into quads you're still way way way ahead here.

[sthief09]

[ QUOTE ]
Man, chill out.

OP has a legitamite question, bro.

If this hand was HU and there was no cap, i'd simply ask the villain if he wanted to match my stack after I nineteen bet him on the river, so, I think you're never wrong to raise and re raise here, and the one time out of 1,000 you run into quads you're still way way way ahead here.

[/ QUOTE ]


please limit your retardedness to one forum. it's bad enough in MHS. we don't need it here also

[PTjvs]

[ QUOTE ]
Man, chill out.

OP has a legitamite question, bro.

If this hand was HU and there was no cap, i'd simply ask the villain if he wanted to match my stack after I nineteen bet him on the river, so, I think you're never wrong to raise and re raise here, and the one time out of 1,000 you run into quads you're still way way way ahead here.

[/ QUOTE ]

This seems incredibly awful.

jvs

Just stop, Tex, stop. Odds of quads are very rare. Odds of being ahead after someone 19-bets you on the river on this board are infinitesimal. Your posts make Baby Jesus cry.

you know, it is possible for you to not click on my posts if you hate them that much.

i was exaggerating to make a point, i'm glad you missed it.

but really, what was so terribly retarded about what i said?
i'd like to know, and, if you guys are sick and tired of me posting, maybe you could take the time to offer some insight into what i said and how it was so incredibly wrong and ignorant....seriously, that would be more constructive than these short and kurt "you're gaying up the forum and this or that is retarded and blah blah blah"


Explain.

Tx: There are few rational hands that we beat on this board. With players that have been showing constant aggression since the flop on a relatively dry board, we worry about three types of hands: 1) Big pairs 2) Two pair combinations 3) Sets. When the two bottom cards end up pairing and villains are still going wild, the likelyhood of a big pair is reduced, which leaves us with two pair and sets. Although two pair combinations are much more likely than pocket 4s or 7s, as the action continues the probability increases that quads are in play. That explains the hesitation of some posters to even cap this board. You could make an argument for going a few more bets if there was no cap, one of the villains folded and the other was a known maniac who overplays everything and is tilting at the moment, but the OP didn't include these reads in his post. Therefore, advocating 19 bets, even as hyperbole, is not the shining wisdom you might view it to be.

[B Dids]

[ QUOTE ]
you know, it is possible for you to not click on my posts if you hate them that much.


[/ QUOTE ]

That would imply that he's using threaded mode, and I think we all hope Josh is WAY smarter than that.

My whole point to the OP was that he's not mucking this hand for four bets, ever. If they made quads there's nothing magical he can do to know that. What I said about nienteen bets was an exagerration of saying "your hand is good here almost always" ram and jam.


Tex

[ QUOTE ]
My whole point to the OP was that he's not mucking this hand for four bets, ever. If they made quads there's nothing magical he can do to know that. What I said about nienteen bets was an exagerration of saying "your hand is good here almost always" ram and jam.


[/ QUOTE ]

OK man. But for someone who advocates limping aces for deception, you can see that perhaps we wouldn't be that quick to grasp your cunning hyperbole?

[Drontier]

don't you love pp

[baronzeus]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My whole point to the OP was that he's not mucking this hand for four bets, ever. If they made quads there's nothing magical he can do to know that. What I said about nienteen bets was an exagerration of saying "your hand is good here almost always" ram and jam.


[/ QUOTE ]

OK man. But for someone who advocates limping aces for deception, you can see that perhaps we wouldn't be that quick to grasp your cunning hyperbole?

[/ QUOTE ]


i think james282 made a post about overlimping AA for deception too. although i only read it in passing.

folding this river sucks. 4betting is fine for the reasons sthief09 pointed out.

[zephed]

[ QUOTE ]
sorry, you can't fold top boat

cap it. the reason for this is because better hands will cap while worse hands might just call. you're going 4 bets no matter what if you're behind and no one is folding to your cap. you gain a bet when you somehow win but lose one when you're behind.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is what I was thinking, you've got to cap. Yes, you may be behind to quads, but if you are it is going to be capped anyhow and you absolutely CAN'T fold.

I don't think this is where we should be making "smart" laydowns either. When the betting action is crazy, there is a chance that someone is just going apeshit with a crap hand. I also thought there was a chance the two players were colluding.

[NLSoldier]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My whole point to the OP was that he's not mucking this hand for four bets, ever. If they made quads there's nothing magical he can do to know that. What I said about nienteen bets was an exagerration of saying "your hand is good here almost always" ram and jam.


[/ QUOTE ]

OK man. But for someone who advocates limping aces for deception, you can see that perhaps we wouldn't be that quick to grasp your cunning hyperbole?

[/ QUOTE ]


i think james282 made a post about overlimping AA for deception too. although i only read it in passing.

folding this river sucks. 4betting is fine for the reasons sthief09 pointed out.

[/ QUOTE ]

it was stoxtrader and it was a joke related to the new mods in mid/high.

[NLSoldier]

[ QUOTE ]
rofl...wow you're weak/tight.

go 9 bets with no cap. then I think when he 10-bets me.

Then I make it 20. rofl, quads. WOW DO YOU KNOW HOW BAD THESE PLAYERS ARE?? He's got 72o here 99% of the time.

Go to the felt here and it's not close.

[/ QUOTE ]

surprise surprise, aggro hush poster was right /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Drontier]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My whole point to the OP was that he's not mucking this hand for four bets, ever. If they made quads there's nothing magical he can do to know that. What I said about nienteen bets was an exagerration of saying "your hand is good here almost always" ram and jam.


[/ QUOTE ]

OK man. But for someone who advocates limping aces for deception, you can see that perhaps we wouldn't be that quick to grasp your cunning hyperbole?

[/ QUOTE ]


i think james282 made a post about overlimping AA for deception too. although i only read it in passing.

folding this river sucks. 4betting is fine for the reasons sthief09 pointed out.

[/ QUOTE ]why does he [sthief] get the credit for the point i came up with first. /images/graemlins/tongue.gifouts:

[partygirluk]

[ QUOTE ]
Against my will, I capped. BB called and button FOLDED! BB showed J4d and MHIG. It's amazing what people are capable of sometimes.

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I would keep an eye out on these guys, as this hand should raise suspicion of collusion.

alright, i'm glad that after some explanation you saw my point. however, in regards to limping with AA for deception, i dont advocate it. i do however, advocate not playing the same hand the same way every time. that was the point of the post, if there ever was a situation where you would limp with AA, i thought that the one i found myself in to be just that. I noticed that I ALWAYS raised PF with AA, KK, QQ, And AK from the SB, so i decided that a change in routine might fit this scenario, and it would add some deception to my game, and seeing how i play with the same 100-150 players on a daily basis, it would be useful in further hands.


I didnt advocate it, i just wanted to see when and where people didnt always raise PF with AA.

I raise 100% of the hands that I open. You guys can try to figure out my range, because I feel that's about as deceptive as it gets.

[The Truth]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Against my will, I capped. BB called and button FOLDED! BB showed J4d and MHIG. It's amazing what people are capable of sometimes.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would keep an eye out on these guys, as this hand should raise suspicion of collusion.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I would keep an eye out on these guys, as this hand should raise suspicion of collusion.

[/ QUOTE ]
I've checked into some other plays and watched them play seperately on different tables. The research showed that they are just flat out retarded.

Quick story.....

One of the players I signed up for Party Poker a year ago is abolutely terrible. One day, he called me because he got home and his account was frozen. He didn't know why, so I called up Party's investigations department and represented him as his affiliate.

The lady on the phone told me that he was locked out because he was part of a ring of colluders that was under investigation. I asked her who the other players were, and when she told me, I assured her there was no collusion going on. I told her to check their locations, inter-account transfers, shared tables, and buddy list PMs. After finding he was clean, she released his account and actually said to me, "Does your friend know how bad he is at poker?". I told her he does and that sometimes that looks like collusion, but it definitely isn't. He was excused, but the other 3-4 guys in the collusion ring had their accounts permanently locked and lost their money.

This really happened.