Mos Def, Talib Kwali, Ghostface and more 11/1/05 - Santa Cruz

[loose passive]

I have two extra tickets to this show.

Anybody interested in the tickets PM me.

The Show is Tuesday, Nov 1

The Catalyst in Santa Cruz

PLAYSTATION PRESENTS
THE BREED LOVE ODYSSEY
featuring
MOS DEF
TALIB KWELI
PHAROAHE MONCH
JEAN GRAE
GHOSTFACE KILLAH
Ages 16+

Bring your PSP™ system to the show.
You could receive a PSP™ game and a CONNECT Cash™
card worth 25 song downloads.*
Everyone who attends will receive EXCLUSIVE Mos Def downloads.
*Limited to the first 50 people per show or while supplies last.
See further details at us.playstation.com

[shant]

That is a sick lineup. Is there an LA show?

[loose passive]

3-Nov Los Angeles Gibson Amphitheatre 7:15pm

[-Skeme-]

Ghost sucks. Yeah, I said i. Pharoahe should absolutely destroy that show.

[GrooveNougat]

[ QUOTE ]
Ghost sucks. Yeah, I said i. Pharoahe should absolutely destroy that show.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're saying Ghost sucks in general or just live? I'll be at the LA show.

[TheBlueMonster]

any idea if they're coming to the East coast (represent yo) at all?

[jnalpak]

[ QUOTE ]
Ghost sucks in just live

[/ QUOTE ]

sounds like he just yells into the mic with no flow

monch and blackstar should put on a great show.....

[-Skeme-]

He sucks in total. Annoying voice, lyrics make no sense.. very overrated. Possibly overrated more than MF Doom.

[Swax]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ghost sucks in just live

[/ QUOTE ]

sounds like he just yells into the mic with no flow

monch and blackstar should put on a great show.....

[/ QUOTE ]

whoa whoa - I'm not the biggest Ghost fan, but if there's anyone who has "no flow" in this bunch it's DEFINITELY Kweli. i just don't get that guy's appeal.

Haven't seen monch in a while - his solo stuff never did it for me, but I saw Organized back in the "Stress" era, when monch was doing things light years beyond anyone in this lineup, and he was pretty impressive - almost KRS-in-his-prime level - so if he's still that nice he'll certainly steal this show.

[TheBlueMonster]

[ QUOTE ]
if there's anyone who has "no flow" in this bunch it's DEFINITELY Kweli.

[/ QUOTE ]
you're serious?

If skills sold/
truth be told/
I'd probably be/
lyrically Talib Kweli
-- Jay -Z

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ghost sucks. Yeah, I said i. Pharoahe should absolutely destroy that show.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're saying Ghost sucks in general or just live? I'll be at the LA show.

[/ QUOTE ]naw, he just hates Ghost.

Talib sucks live.

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
Pharoahe should absolutely destroy that show.

[/ QUOTE ]As long as Mos Def doesn't act like a blues singer, he should be pretty good too.

Also, GHOST will pwn. Yeah I said it.

[loose passive]

[ QUOTE ]
Talib sucks live.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, must disagree....saw him just a few months ago and he put on a really good show.

Someone who does suck live though is Atmosphere.

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Talib sucks live.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, must disagree....saw him just a few months ago and he put on a really good show.


[/ QUOTE ]its possible. I saw him live, and I enjoyed it to some extent because I like his music, maybe it was the crowd, but there wasn't much energy. Just sorta him rapping, thats it.

[Swax]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
if there's anyone who has "no flow" in this bunch it's DEFINITELY Kweli.

[/ QUOTE ]
you're serious?

If skills sold/
truth be told/
I'd probably be/
lyrically Talib Kweli
-- Jay -Z

[/ QUOTE ]

And this proves what? First of all, Jay-Z thinks Memphis Bleek is dope and performed with Linkin Park, so regardless of how nice he might be, his opinions and mine ain't exactly gonna coincide. Second, he's talking about Kweli's lyrics, which are certainly well above average (as long as he doesn't battle rhyme, which is embarassingly bad), not his flow.

I think Kweli gets way too much credit because he's the only rapper to at least register a blip in the mainstream in a long time with any message other than "I'm a walking money clip", (I guess you can count Kanye, but he's more a producer than an MC) hence a lot of the vets are trying to big him up more than usual. While that's admirable, and I think it'd be great if some younger cats understood that hip-hop at some point was about empowerment instead of consumerism and phony gangster stories (although I'll always have a soft spot for the Geto Boys lol), that still doesn't help me get over Kweli's choppy-ass rhyming. I think he tries to do too much - I mean, look at Mos, he doesn't try to get too acrobatic with his flow, he stays fairly basic and lets his lyrics carry him. Kweli is fine when he does that, but when he does that five-words-per-second thing he just loses it. Monch, however, can pull that off effortlessly. Seriously, listen to some of the tracks of "Stress" - it's too bad that the beats were so bland and Monch's rhymes were so far ahead of their time, because if the world had been ready that album would have blown some minds.

[Swax]

[ QUOTE ]


Someone who does suck live though is Atmosphere.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? I haven't been able to stomach Atmosphere since Slug started recycling his "women have scarred me" routine for every song, but I remember seeing them four or five years ago and they pretty much destroyed it. I'm always really impressed when a live MC can kick some obviously spontaneous freestyles nowadays - I think it's an important element to a live hip-hop show that most people don't have anymore.

However, it's not hard to believe that they're wack now.

[-Skeme-]

Slug is awful at freestyling. A Nas is the gayest performer.

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
A Nas is the gayest performer.

[/ QUOTE ]I don't follow, clarify please.

[Swax]

[ QUOTE ]
Slug is awful at freestyling. A Nas is the gayest performer.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm curious - who exactly is "good at freestyling" in your mind? I have a list - but I'm wondering who you think is nice. And those tracks on mixtape that are called "freestyles" and are just a verse from the album over a different beat don't count.

You are correct about Nas though. He is a great writer when he tries, but he certainly doesn't command the stage.

[-Skeme-]

[ QUOTE ]
don't follow, clarify please.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's pretty self explanatory. Nas doesn't have a good performance at concerts.


[ QUOTE ]
I'm curious - who exactly is "good at freestyling" in your mind?

[/ QUOTE ]

Mostly people you wouldn't know about. TheSaurus, NoCanDo, Illmaculate, Okwerdz, and a bunch of other bay area people.

[B Dids]

Slug's never not been about "women scarred me".

Atmosphere's live show is awesome.

The huge population of 16 year old white girls at said show is not awesome.

I love Atmosphere, but I tend to hate their fans.

And Ghostface is amazing and Talib is horrible.

[Georgia Avenue]

[ QUOTE ]
I saw Organized back in the "Stress" era

[/ QUOTE ]

You sir, are my hero.
[bragpost] I saw Aceyalone on the Balls Don't Bounce tour...[/bragcrap]

but yours is more better...2x awesome rappers.

As a hijack...Does being in a group (remember that ? rap "groups"...) diminish the individual greatness of rappers?

If you were to make a top 10 greatest rappers list, wouldn't it be hard to put say, a certain member of the pharcyde on it, even though their first album would easily make the 10 greatest records ever? Individual awesomeness > group efforts (?)

[-Skeme-]

[ QUOTE ]
And Ghostface is amazing and Talib is horrible.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow. Very negative.

[okayplayer]

I'll be at their show in SF on Sunday.

Ghost does not suck, but I haven't seen him live, and am a little skeptical of his live performance. Talib's live shows are usually not great, but not really bad either. I am hoping that Mos and Talib together put on a great show, and Pharaohe is sick as hell (is he signed yet?). Jean Grae is probably the sickest female lyricist around.

[-Skeme-]

Pharoahe has always been signed.

[okayplayer]

[ QUOTE ]
Pharoahe has always been signed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, I am pretty sure that he was basically a free agent after Rawkus folded. From what I hear, he was (and maybe still is) in talks with Shady Records to sign to Denaun Porter's label (Runyon Ave, I believe). All of these talks were going on around the end of last year I think, and then I heard there was supposedly a bidding war going on, but I never really heard whether or not he signed anywhere. But from what I heard, it sounded like they were all but waiting for him to sign the papers (to Shady/Runyon Ave), but then I never heard anything after that.

[loose passive]

Still got the tickets if anybody wants to go.

[Swax]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm curious - who exactly is "good at freestyling" in your mind?

[/ QUOTE ]

Mostly people you wouldn't know about. TheSaurus, NoCanDo, Illmaculate, Okwerdz, and a bunch of other bay area people.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol - OK, who that I would know about is good then? no one?

[Swax]

[ QUOTE ]
Slug's never not been about "women scarred me".

Atmosphere's live show is awesome.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would say that anything pre-Lucy Ford is not really about that. Pretty much all of Overcast is not about that, the Dynospectrum isn't like that, and most of the first "seven" tape isn't like that. Granted, I even liked the opening days of the emo-Slug, but now it's just repetitive schtick.

like I said, they definitely rocked it when I saw 'em.

[B Dids]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
don't follow, clarify please.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's pretty self explanatory. Nas doesn't have a good performance at concerts.


[ QUOTE ]
I'm curious - who exactly is "good at freestyling" in your mind?

[/ QUOTE ]

Mostly people you wouldn't know about. TheSaurus , NoCanDo, Illmaculate, Okwerdz, and a bunch of other bay area people.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is highly amusing for reasons only like one other poster here will get.

[Swax]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I saw Organized back in the "Stress" era

[/ QUOTE ]

You sir, are my hero.
[bragpost] I saw Aceyalone on the Balls Don't Bounce tour...[/bragcrap]

but yours is more better...2x awesome rappers.

As a hijack...Does being in a group (remember that ? rap "groups"...) diminish the individual greatness of rappers?

If you were to make a top 10 greatest rappers list, wouldn't it be hard to put say, a certain member of the pharcyde on it, even though their first album would easily make the 10 greatest records ever? Individual awesomeness > group efforts (?)

[/ QUOTE ]

well, my counter bragpost...last year when I was briefly stinting as a writer for a friend's startup music mag, I interviewed Haiku De Tat, and I have a recording of me freestyling back and forth for a couple minutes with Mikah Nine. Now there is one really good freestyler - it's too bad that his talent never translates that well to wax.

Oddly enough, Aceyalone was supposed to perform this past Friday night at the Normandie casino, a sh*thole place in Gardena, CA - I hadn't seen him in ages so I figured I'd head down there, play some 4/8 and dip in to see Acey (my distaste for most new underground stuff plus my age relative to the rest of the crowd usually results in me skipping openers these days) - I mean, come on, how can i pass up the combination of hold 'em and classic underground hip-hop 50 feet away from each other? Plus, what was really intriguing to me was the prospect of seeing such an odd MC perform for an audience which wasn't going to be the standard lame underground hip-hop audience (read: 95% white)...but unfortunately not enough people showed for him to perform. Weak. At least I took $200 from the 4/8 game in about 2 1/2 hours.

As for the group question, I don't think being in a group diminishes if your verses really stand out from the other MC's, especially if you've dropped a good solo record, both of which apply to acey and pharoahe, maybe Q-Tip. Defintely Zev Love/MF Doom. Ice Cube (don't front, pre-acting Cube was great). Whatever Wu member you like most. etc etc...the Pharcyde, however, is a case of the whole being greater than the sum of its parts. Nobody really stood out and nobody had any solo success. that's actually what made the album kinda great. I think Fatlip was probably the most talented though - i mean look how uninspring they are without him.

[bigt439]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
don't follow, clarify please.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's pretty self explanatory. Nas doesn't have a good performance at concerts.


[ QUOTE ]
I'm curious - who exactly is "good at freestyling" in your mind?

[/ QUOTE ]

Mostly people you wouldn't know about. TheSaurus, NoCanDo, Illmaculate, Okwerdz, and a bunch of other bay area people.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can't leave out Juice and Supernatural. And as mainstream as he is, Eminem is a SICK freestyler. Akrobatik's not bad either. And obviously Big L is probably the best of all time.

[bigt439]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And Ghostface is amazing and Talib is horrible.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow. Very negative.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I actually think ghostface is mentally handicapped. Or speaks Chinese. Either way he's an idiot.

As for the best live performers, J5 and K-Os (in a 200 person club w/ a live band) tore it up. Roots put on a sick show (with Skillz... who is just disgustingly good).

[jnalpak]

was there a trip report on this i missed?

They just posted dates for two dates in NY on ticketmaster coming december and im not sure if its worth it.

sooo, was it worth price of admission?

[loose passive]

It was cool.....

The show started with K'naan (sp?). Did not listen to much of this as I was outside the venue. Jean Grae was next and did not do much to impress me. For some reason Ghostface did show up for the show (not sure if he is only playing some dates or if I just got screwed).

After Jean Grae was on Talib came out and did pretty much the same set I saw him perform just a few weeks earlier. He did change it up by doing a song with Jean Grae, but she forgot the lyrics and just started to freestyle. Talib got a laugh out of it.

After a few more songs Mos Def crept out on stage with Talib and performed a few songs. He would do some solo stuff sprinkled with some Black Star stuff.

With Mos on stage the show was very loose, he stoppped a few songs after they had started only to start them up again a few seconds later. He said he does not like doing live shows and that he does pretty much whatever he wants at shows. He joked and said something about already having our money so he would perform whatever he wanted.

After awhile of Mos and Talib, Pharoah came on stage and did a few songs. Once Pharoah was done Mos went back to playing with a little Talib sprinkled in.

The show seemed to go on forever. Talib came on a little whle after 10pm and they were still going over two and half hours later.

If you are big fan of Mos Def and Talib then I would try and check out the show.

[-Skeme-]

[ QUOTE ]
lol - OK, who that I would know about is good then? no one?

[/ QUOTE ]

Um, Juice and Supernat are good.


[ QUOTE ]
This is highly amusing for reasons only like one other poster here will get.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then why post it? For what it's worth, his name isn't Thesaurus, as in, the counterpart to the dictionary.. it's The Saurus, like Tyrann-Saurus.


[ QUOTE ]
And as mainstream as he is, Eminem is a SICK freestyler.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, he's not, sir. He's actually absolutely terrible. Watch him battle at Scribble in 97 where he actually freestyles (Rap Olympics was all written, sorry) and you'll see how badly he sucks.


[ QUOTE ]
And obviously Big L is probably the best of all time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lol, not this again. Big L didn't freestyle. His in studio frees with Children of the Corn were all written.

[ThaSaltCracka]

How was Ghost?

[loose passive]

There was no Ghost....I think he played the 1st of the two shows only.

This is the second time I have gone to a show and had Wutang or a member not show......

Don't trust the Wu

[-Skeme-]

Yeah, I went to see Rebel INS down here a few months ago and his punk ass noshowed. So did Planet Asia. We sat through Afu Ra just to go home dissapointed. Afu Ra sucks.