Good Fold or bad?

[SoBeDude]

2-4 online.

I'm on the button with KTo. first circuit of the table.

3 callers to me. I call, sb completes. bb checks. six to see the flop.

Flop comes: K /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif 5 /forums/images/icons/spade.gif 9 /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif

checked around to LMP. He bets, CO raises. I think for a bit.

Both players are regulars, but I don't have a feel for either of them. Both are up good money.

The bettor or the raiser could easily have KQ or KJ, leaving me in trouble. There is also surely a flush draw out there. Its going to cost me two bets to see the turn, and I may be drawing very thin.

I think my only choices to continue are to 3-bet or fold.

I fold.

All fold to the original bettor, he calls.

Turn comes K /forums/images/icons/heart.gif

checked to CO who bets, LMP folds. I don't know what they held.

How was my fold? good, bad, somewhere in between?

-Scott

[nichtgut]

Hi
I think you should fold PF.
I would also, if in your situation, fold on the flop.

/Nicht Gut

[dirty_dan]

I think your fold was good. LMP had A9s and CO had KJ.

[elysium]

hi sobe
too many limpers as you later find out. fold this trash pre-flop. KT against one weak limper from the button or as a SR from the CO.

[Homer]

In general, I would fold.

I think if someone is unable to lay this hand down after flopping top-pair, but suspecting that he is outkicked, then he shouldn't play the hand to begin with.

-- Homer

[Bob T.]

I think that it probably was a good fold. The pot was still small, and you will have to win about 1/3 of the time to break even, and you still might have to call a reraise from LMP. If you are behind, you probably don't have many outs, and unless the last two cards, come K-T or K-K, you aren't ever going to be certain that your hand is good.

[mvernon851]

With all those callers the minimum unsuited hand with a king would be KQ in my book. For KJ you'd want less callers.

[smd]

I think the fold was good. I have to admit that I am tempted to play KTo late also, and this is a good example of why not to play it.

[bernie]

one hand i stay away from preflop is KTo. unless im on a steal play, or bluffing. it can be a very deceptively suck hand.

even on heavily passive tables i fold this. id rather play QT, J9.....

i dont even like completing my sb with it. though, at times i do

if you flop a K, you cant really like youre hand. if you flop a T there are many overcards that can hit.

i think this hand alone has done alot of damage to many players bankrolls.

unless, of course, you have great control over your opponents and can read them real well.

even then, id rather fold it.

b

[ResidentParanoid]

3 bet or fold is correct. I can live with the fold and move on without regret.

I'll limp KTo from the button often, but plan to give up on the flop with top pair if anyone shows genuine interest in the flop. Since you don't have a read, you played exactly as you should.

[RockLobster]

Hi Scott--

I would have folded as well... only my fold would have been the "pre-flop" variety. I'm VERY picky about playing KTo & KJo, and this hand didn't meet those strict standards.

I guess I'm mostly likely to play those hands when I can open-raise from LP or if I can raise to isolate a loosie-goosie. I'll also sometimes limp in LP or better in a passive family pot, but I don't know if this is +EV in the long run.

Take care!

[oddjob]

allright, since everyone else is saying they'd fold... and even fold preflop!!!!!??!! i'm going to play devil's advocate.

i find it hard to believe that some of you would fold this preflop, when you hold this on the button and it's limped to you. bernie even stated he doesn't play this in his sb sometimes. does anyone else find this astonishing?

the raiser could easily be raising the flush draw. i think if it's early at the table, this could be a good time to make a play and find out what he's willing to raise with.

a 3-bet can knock out the original better.

the K on the turn makes it more unlikely that he has the other king, and more likely he's on the diamond draw.

not absolute... just a different point of view.

[SoBeDude]

I'll also sometimes limp in LP or better in a passive family pot, but I don't know if this is +EV in the long run.

Well I'm on the button. and it is a passive family pot...

So I think you contradicted yourself. /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

I think I should have 3-bet, but I think the fold was good too.

-Scott

[SoBeDude]

If I had still been in on the turn I would have bet/raised for sure.

Not only because I may have the best hand, but the odds of a split pot go up as well (potentially eliminating the impact of a bad kicker).

-scott

[lil']

A while back I made a post asking what to do with K-10o with one early limper. The general consensus was that if there is more than one limper, the hand isn't that great to play.

Your fold was good, BTW, IMHO.

[RockLobster]

Hi Scott--

Well I'm on the button. and it is a passive family pot...

Well there were 3 callers (I thought 2), so I guess that's close enough /forums/images/icons/smile.gif... but my default play is to find a reason to fold KTo or KJo.

Either way, once you saw the flop I think the fold was a good one.

[Bob T.]

Here is a tactically similar situation in my mind, you have KT suited on the cutoff, one limper to you. In this case, you are usually going to raise. On the other hand, if it is openraised in midposition, and folded to you, you have KT suited, you probably fold. Either way, you are going to play the hand 2 or 3 handed for two bets, but in one situation, you are happy to play, and in the other you aren't.

With KT off, I would probably limp on the button with this hand in a family pot. I would limp with hands a lot worse than this for sure, but when it is bet and raised in front of you, I think you are faced with a bad situation, If one player bets, and then it is folded to you, then I would be raising with this hand, but once someone else makes the raise, then it makes drawing real thin a high probability with this hand, and it is time to get away from it.

I think that the king on the turn probably just made you think that it was less likely that your opponent had a king, but if he did, he could have had a better kicker, and if he didn't, he might have had a set, and just made full house.

I think that you can play hands like this in late position for a single bet, if you can figure out when to get away from them, and when to attack with them after the flop. Otherwise they get real costly.

In your example, you have a bet and a raise in front of you , with two players who might have you beat, and if you are behind, you don't have a significant number of outs, especially when you consider that the pot is still fairly small.

[SoBeDude]

Hi bob,

Thanks for explaining your thinking process. It is happily similar to mine.

Perhaps there is hope for me after all. /forums/images/icons/crazy.gif

-Scott

[bernie]

i may actually be giving up a little by not completing with this hand in the SB. 1/3 bet for completion i would.

i just hate KTo.

how many flops can you really like with this hand that you cant be redrawn on easily. not many. 2 pair is about what your hoping for. or a monotone board with your king as that suit. or an openended str8 draw. thats about it.

if you flop a pair, you cant really like it.

i like KJ much, much better. it plays much easier too

b