I've decided to start posting again: 20-40 SH

[Eric P]

i show up at 11:15 to a house game that has been going all night. 20-40 5 handed

I'm deal K /images/graemlins/spade.gifK /images/graemlins/heart.gif in BB
utg FOLDS, RAISE (best and tightest player at the table), folds to me, i CALL

flop: A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 6 /images/graemlins/club.gif 3 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

I check, he bets, i fold.

This was a read dependant play, i'm thinking that if flop comes no ace and he has a pocket pair, i get paid off (he's never seen me before, but i'm playing somewhat loose, he is playing ring game tight and talking about 'fundamentals' as a joke but is trying to prove a point to another guy at the table).

Is this ok? Obviously he is going to be the flop without an ace, but there is no pot to win and i stand to make 1.5 BB's if i play this hand an win, i stand to lose more than that if I lose, and I stand to lose much more often that i stand to win. Do other people make this play (just calling pre-flop)? If no one just calls pre-flop, pretending you did, do you also fold here?

Eric, you made a terrible play here, Even given this unfriendly flop are still a favorite to have the best hand. Postflop you should check and call all the way. Since you are up against a tight player you dont want to play back at him since you want to induce him to continue to bet all his 2 outers/total bluffs(KQ,QJ etc) So just check and call every street.

[krishanleong]

Board: Ad 6h 3s
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) / tie (%)

Hand 1: 43.8362 % [ 00.43 00.00 ] { AA-66, AKs-A9s, KQs-KTs, QJs, AKo-A9o, KQo-KTo, QJo }
Hand 2: 56.1638 % [ 00.56 00.00 ] { KK }

If it was purely hot/cold I'd say call down. But you will frequently win 1.5 BB and lose 2.5 BB. So maybe a fold is okay.

Krishan

[DcifrThs]

there is no reason not to 3bet this from the bb playing 5handed.

Barron

[Dave Mac]

3 bet pf, if your 3 bet reeks of a super premium hand you are not 3 betting enough.
dave

[Nigel]

[ QUOTE ]
But you will frequently win 3.75-4.75 BB or lose 2.5 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

Can't forget about the money in the pot already.

Also, given his opponent's description, it's probably better that he did not 3 bet pre-flop with this particular flop.

[phish]

Even if you were in a particularly risk-aversive mood, I think you need to call the flop. You can then fold if he bets the turn or win the pot if he checks the turn.
I call these plays 'give your opponent the opportunity to make a mistake.' The mistake in this case being he should bet the turn regardless of whether he has an ace. But if he fails to bet, then in essence he has surrendered the pot to you.

[jason_t]

I think you should get out of the habit of using PokerStove in your analyses.

[BradL]

[ QUOTE ]

Also, given his opponent's description, it's probably better that he did not 3 bet pre-flop with this particular flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a very results oriented way of looking at it...

Description:

[ QUOTE ]
(best and tightest player at the table)... (he's never seen me before , but i'm playing somewhat loose, he is playing ring game tight and talking about 'fundamentals' as a joke but is trying to prove a point to another guy at the table)

[/ QUOTE ]

He says he just showed up and has this solid a read on an opponent who he has never played with before, i dont think so. Im not trying to be a jerk but this sounds like a situation where the read was created (not necessarily intentionally) to justify a very weak play.

-Brad

[Fianchetto]

Not good.

Obviously, 3-betting preflop is the standard play, but I'm not opposed to smooth calling in the BB with a big hand to occasionally mix it up especially if your opponent will auto bet every flop.

But if you are going to just call preflop, you are under representing the strength of your hand to get more action on a later street and you should plan on checkraising almost all flops, and almost always going to showdown. With a pretty dry ace high flop like that, I'd check call it down most of the time.

Again, you have not shown any interest in the hand so far, all you have done is call and check. Most opponents will autobet this flop in position, so you really haven't gained any new information about his hand and he certainly doesn't have to have an ace here.

[Nigel]

I agree, it is results oriented. So shoot me. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Seriously though, nothing wrong with calling HU with big hands in the BB for deception.

[BradL]

[ QUOTE ]

Seriously though, nothing wrong with calling HU with big hands in the BB for deception.

[/ QUOTE ]

He feels his image is laggy, a 3bet shouldnt seem suspicious if he is correct about his image.

-Brad

[mmcd]

[ QUOTE ]
Obviously, 3-betting preflop is the standard play, but I'm not opposed to smooth calling in the BB with a big hand to occasionally mix it up especially if your opponent will auto bet every flop.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think this the wrong reason to do things like this. I'll flat call big hands from bb quite a bit, but I do it against players who just LOVE playing back at a bb checkraise in a blind defense situation. Online there's a fair number of players that will play a big pot with an unimproved AQ if you call preflop and checkraise a raggedy board.

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you should get out of the habit of using PokerStove in your analyses.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you should figure out whether it's relevant to the hand first. I mean did you even read the rest of the post? Sorry if this is too abrasive.

Krishan

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
there is no reason not to 3bet this from the bb playing 5handed.

Barron

[/ QUOTE ]

Would you never call HU from the bb for deception with AA or KK?

I've found it to be a very valuable move against TAGs and LAGs.

Krishan

[SA125]

Leading or c/r'ing and folding to a 3 bet is the only way to play the hand because you said, besides being the tightest, he's the best player. Which means he'd bet that flop with a lot of hands to see what you do.

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
there is no reason not to 3bet this from the bb playing 5handed.

Barron

[/ QUOTE ]

Would you never call HU from the bb for deception with AA or KK?

I've found it to be a very valuable move against TAGs and LAGs.

Krishan

[/ QUOTE ]

i just 3bet them with a wider range profitably SH. if for some reason i've been calling with the calling hands more frequently than normal (b/c ive been getting them more) then i'll go ahead and call my good ones. but no, in the situation you described i would not call KK there.

Barron

[Drontier]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you should get out of the habit of using PokerStove in your analyses.

[/ QUOTE ]
why? I think pokerstove is the best way to analyze hands. if you have his range a good read, all thats left is stove.

[Eric P]

I should have posted this: I've been dealing for these guys for the past year, i know how everyone plays but they don't know how I play.

[Eric P]

I agree that i should have just three bet probably ( do 95% of the time -this is why i posted tihs).

After not three betting and the ace flopping, when he bet i was almost certain he had an ace. If he didn't have an ace his play (i'm fairly certain) would be to let me bluff the turn and river (perhaps raise me on the river). That being said, he really could have had a face card pocket pair and i mucked the winner.

AS IT WAS: my friend was dealing so i folded and told him to look at it, he didn't protect it when he looked at it and the guy saw it. He saw it and got upset and showed me an ace.

[Maulik]

you have to 3-bet, all day and all night. I get the sense you aren't doing so enough?

[sweetjazz]

If you call the flop, will your friend bet the turn without an ace?

After your KK is exposed, are you planning to use your tight image to try to steal a pot or two later?

[Eric P]

This hand was really a huge varient for me. When i said i was playing a little LAGgy i really was. This was my one 'change of pace hand' i was planning, but when the ace came, i felt it was better to get rid of it. I truly am 3-betting enough pre-flop (i'm irish and from chicago - bet early and often type of idea) this was just a play i thought i would try. My plan seemed foolish however, when the ace flopped as i stood to lose (from this point forward) more than i could gain.

I never meant to expose my hand, and afterwards i just tried to play image of "good" rather than tight or anything else. Cause i was clearly not tight, but i made a giant laydown and was correct (since he showed the ace) and tried to be intimidating with that. I ended up winning a rack and a half and going home for the white sox game.