Weighing the Odds - Finish it?

I've read about 60 pages, and I'm not too impressed with it so far. It's not horrible, but it's not good either. It got 5 stars on Amazon by 14 reviewers, so I got it. Is this book worth finishing?

vincent,

we regret to inform you that twoplustwo publishing is not hiring at this time.

we thank you for your interest and will keep your resume on file for future reference.

in all seriousness, i think it's a great book. very comprehensive, easy to understand and well-written.

best sections i think are starting hands (although i like that in any book) and shorthanded (i think it's the best out there). apparently others really like the turn and river sections.

[MaxPowerPoker]

Finish it! The shorthanded section alone makes the book worth the price. Though others don't care for it, DIPO has really helped me out when I'm drawing. And honestly...who isn't drawing?

Thanks guys, maybe I'll jump to the SH section & read from there.

[tinhat]

After all the raving on 2p2 I was extremely disappointed also. To be fair even without the raving, if I had browsed the first 1/3 of the book at the store I never would've bought it. But once I hit somethng like pg 109 (or thereabouts) my opinion of the book started to change completely. I'm now glad I did buy it and forced myself to continue reading.

For some reason the first part of the book (IMO) is childish; but his writing style really starts to shine not until after the first 1/3 of the book; and agree with another poster that King made way too big a deal out of DIPO (and I reacted to the "core" of the book thinking what a stupid and inadquate tool DIPO is).

If he ever updates the book *I think* he should remove the focus he gives DIPO; maybe make it a footnote or something. As it is now it definitely biased me especially when the book stated following sections were based on the DIPO method (IMM meaning I needed to use this stupid DIPO thing to follow later examples).

So skip around or give it another 40-some pages; you may end up really liking his style/the rest of the book...

Mike

To each his own. I'm 1/3 of the way through the book and find it a great complement to SSHE. I'm actually enjoying it more than SSHE, but I think that's due to having more experience playing than I had when I read SSHE. Gonna go back and re-read SSHE soon. There are a couple of things in Weighing the odds that I disagree with, I don't like DIPO, but most here on the forums don't as far as I can tell. Other than that I really can't recall more than a sentence here or there that I thought might be wrong for me.

[maurile]

I think very highly of the book, but I skipped the first 100 pages and started with the chapter on position. I'm sure the first 100 pages are fine, but I really didn't need to read another explanation of EV, pot odds, or starting hands.

The chapters on reading hands and on short-handed play are particularly good. The river chapter is also excellent (and is online somewhere for free, I think).

[King Yao]

Vincent,
I hope you do finish it, and I hope the rest of the book is more enjoyable and useful to you.

Everyone else,
Thanks for the constructive criticism. I've already made some changes due to messages I've received from readers, so it's always helpful to me. Of course I won't agree with every problem that readers have, but it's good to know about these issues so I can make corrections, clarifications or changes. Thanks.

As for the free chapter on The River that a poster referred to, it can be found here:

A preview chapter: The River (http://bj21.com/ads/weighing_the_odds/Weighing%20chap%2015.pdf)

It is in an adobe acrobat format online, that means some may have trouble viewing it.

King,

I am enjoying your book, even the 1st 100 pages which are review. Are you going to apply your writing skills to any other poker games? Omaha, 7-stud, etc?

S

[bilyin]

Vincent:
I am sure you will be totally indignant if 2+2'ers are accused of group think.

[NSchandler]

Personally, I loved the book. I'm going to re-read it soon when I get the time. The first 1/2 of the book or so is some repeat if you've read the standard 2+2 books, but even those have some good material.

The second half of the book is great, IMO. I'd definitely finish it, it's well worth your time.

[King Yao]

Sorry, no. I don't have the experience in those games, and don't have the interest right now to spend the time to gain the experience. Even if I wanted to, I estimate it would take at least a year of playing full-time in those games before I was comfortable writing about them.

I've read that Andy B is writing a 7-Stud book - or is it 7-Stud hi-lo? I'm not sure, but based on my limited experience reading his posts on 2+2, I think his book will be incredible for those topics.

[SlantNGo]

[ QUOTE ]
Vincent,
I hope you do finish it, and I hope the rest of the book is more enjoyable and useful to you.

Everyone else,
Thanks for the constructive criticism. I've already made some changes due to messages I've received from readers, so it's always helpful to me. Of course I won't agree with every problem that readers have, but it's good to know about these issues so I can make corrections, clarifications or changes. Thanks.

As for the free chapter on The River that a poster referred to, it can be found here:

A preview chapter: The River (http://bj21.com/ads/weighing_the_odds/Weighing%20chap%2015.pdf)

It is in an adobe acrobat format online, that means some may have trouble viewing it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yikes! The chapter on the river is the best in the book IMO. And you're giving it away for free? /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

I agree that the first 1/3 of the book isn't that useful... but that's fine. It was mentioned in the book that that first third was at a more beginner's level, and I actually find DIPO useful and am trying to work it into my game rather than just memorizing odds.

Seriously, if you like the mathematical side to poker, this book is a must, and IMO it is the best poker book I have read. And I haven't even read the whole book yet (currently on the Shorthanded chapter).

[Steve00007]

[ QUOTE ]
I've read about 60 pages, and I'm not too impressed with it so far. It's not horrible, but it's not good either. It got 5 stars on Amazon by 14 reviewers, so I got it. Is this book worth finishing?

[/ QUOTE ]

The first part of the book goes over topics like expected value and counting outs, which aren't all that interesting, especially if you already know this stuff. I didn't mind the review, but I do think it's probably the most boring section of the book. Like some others on here, I do think the book gets better as it goes on, although I haven't finished reading it yet. I'm on page 154.

[chaz64]

I just finished it recently. I would say that, yes, if you have read SSH already you will not find much new in the first third of the book or so. That does not make it a bad book. If someone read WLLH and then read Ed's GSIH and he said "Not a good book, not much new in here" many here would likely not take that too well, and they shouldn't. Just because a book doesn't plow new ground for you doesn't make it a bad book.

That said, I would agree that I did not find DIPO to be useful. However there were sections in the book that IIRC covers ground that SSH did not - or at least covered them in a way that it got a point across to me that I didn't get when reading SSH. Namely:

Starting hands change value: When T9s is better than ATo when in the BB facing a raise, and when it is not.

The chapter on Hand Reading was very helpful to me; and the two on Short Handed Play, I thought were great material for anyone playing 6-max, which is all I've played for months now.

King, thanks for helping me be a better player.

[uncleshady]

I bought Weighing the Odds and find it very useful. No one book gives you all the tools you need to become a good player.

I use ITH's starting charts
SSH postflop in loose games
HPFAP postflop in tighter, smarter games
WTO's Dipo methods
Harrington for tourneys

[Rick Nebiolo]

[ QUOTE ]
I've read that Andy B is writing a 7-Stud book - or is it 7-Stud hi-lo? I'm not sure, but based on my limited experience reading his posts on 2+2, I think his book will be incredible for those topics.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would think it would be 7 stud hi/lo aka stud/8. He's a great poster and it would fill a void in the market only partially filled by Zee and the Todd Brunsen section in Super System 2.

~ Rick

[aargh57]

You really use the DIPO method? Don't you find it more cumbersome than just trying to count your outs and comparing it to the Expected pot size and using an odds chart? To each his own though.

I've read about the first 1/2 and the SH section and agree that it picks up after the first 100 pages or so. I think that the free card, bluffing, and semi-bluffing sections all are good and I plan on rereading those imediatly upon finishing the book.