Played like a fish? AJs.

I have a LAG image, and I've raised $1.50 preflop the last 4 hands in a row. Villain is kind of L-P/A, which is pretty much the standard for weaker players who have adjusted to me.

6 max, 6 handed .25/.50 NL Hold'em

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

CO ($42.71)
Button ($23.84)
SB ($51.30)
BB ($8.25)
UTG ($58.05)
Hero ($77.27)

Preflop: Hero is MP with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $1.5</font>, CO calls $1.50, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $4</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls $2.50, CO calls $2.50.

Flop: ($12.75) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, CO checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets $5</font>, Hero calls $5, CO folds.
I thought the $5 looked like a continuation bet.

Turn: ($22.75) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets $14.84 (All-In)</font>, Hero folds.
I wasn't sure about my laydown here. Villain could easily be trying to make a move since I had just raised a bunch of pots in a row preflop. Also, people with just a few chips left often tend to make a desperate attempt to take down a pot. Thoughts?

[Hattifnatt]

I probably check/fold on the flop.

Now when you called a fold is definitely in order on the turn.

You will have much better spots to get that guys money.

What's the point of playing with AJ if you're going to check/fold when an ace hits the flop.

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You will have much better spots to get that guys money.

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I hate the "better spot" philosophy. Poker is about making the right decisions every time, not just when they're easy.

[ThaHero]

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What's the point of playing with AJ if you're going to check/fold when an ace hits the flop.

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That's my question as well.

Would you call down if you got a J and all undercards?

If you're gonna fold this flop, don't we need to just fold pre-flop then, when he re-raises?

[PinkSteel]

Villain's play looks like a premium pair, doesn't it? Explains the reraise preflop. You and CO check the flop so he's hoping neither of you have an A, bets just $5 so he can get away without committing the rest of his stack if raised. Undercard on the turn means time to get the rest in. Wouldn't lots of people play KK-TT this way?

[UOPokerPlayer]

If you're viewed as LAG, your bets get less respect. Because of this you should bet when you have it because you're going to get called more. So lead the flop for like 10. Button doesn't have enough chips for you to fold this hand in my mind. You're probably paying off, but the pf reraise could mean a pair 1010-KK, and he's probably going to put it all in there not believing you have an ace. When you lead flop, you have to call his raise, and push turn. If CO stays a whole different story, but we're assuming he folds.

[Hattifnatt]

He's first raise to $1.50 is totally fine (I make it $2 though). then it cost him $2.50 to take a flop with a good but not great hand.

I take the flop there and then be caucious further in the hand.

Just because you see a flop with a hand and hit, it doesnt mean you have to go all the way with it when you "hit".

And it was sooooited.

I'm not saying go all the way, he's justified in folding the turn. But surely, if you're folding the flop to a standard bet, you might as well muck preflop.

You guys are right. Damn.

Oh, and what's the point of leading the flop here? Hands I have beat are getting away and hands that are beating me will call/reraise.

[PinkSteel]

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Oh, and what's the point of leading the flop here? Hands I have beat are getting away and hands that are beating me will call/reraise.

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The principal point of leading is to disguise your hand. What would you do if you flopped a set? A monster draw? Two pair? Whiffed completely?

You should have a standard lead-out, so opponents can't put you on a hand. You mix it up occasionally by checking, but you occasionally check your monsters as well as your misses.

In fact, check-raising here might not have been bad (although I'd never do it as standard); if the opponent-overpair theory is right, you probably would have taken it down.

I usually bet a little bit less than the pot on the flop, but here I was up against a small reraise preflop, which was unusual. I didn't think a raise here would disguise my hand very well at all.

[PinkSteel]

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Oh, and what's the point of leading the flop here? Hands I have beat are getting away and hands that are beating me will call/reraise.

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P.S. This is kind of obvious, but the other point to leading is that you have to bet to fold out inferior hands which may improve to beat you later. Even if they're not "drawing hands" per se, anyone is capable of turning his crappy middle pair into a two-pair winner on the turn if you check and let him ride for free. If you're OOP you're in an inherently risky position, but if you think you have the best hand you don't want anyone to ride for free.

What? What am I afraid of hitting here? A big PP has two outs. If I'm best the two of them proabbly have 4 outs total.

[PinkSteel]

Understood, and if you want to check it and let your opponent do the betting for you, great. I wouldn't do it, but if you think his hand range at this point is so wide that he'd bet at you with less than top pair (maybe because you're showing weakness), great. (But you already said you've been LAG, and as another poster said, that means your bets get less respect anyway.)

Or conversely, if you're playing pot control because you only have TPGK, fine, reasonable. If you can narrow your opponent's range to a likely AQ/AK/AA due to his raise, then playing it ultratight and check/folding may be correct. But I think his range is much, much wider, and that on the flop you are very, very likely ahead.

I'm just pointing out that, with what is likely the best hand, by checking you are now letting your opponent potentially draw for free to beat you. That may be a very small possibility, but you're giving away a free option, and that can't be +EV unless you know that that option's worthless (i.e., you flopped a monster and will win no matter what he draws).

Are you sure your play is being perceived as LAG? Or do you think raising 3xBB preflop 5 times in a row is being aggressive?

Considering your self-proclaimed image, I cannot see you not leading into that flop, given the fact you were willing to call a re-raise with AJs OOP.

OK fine, let's say I raise 10$ into this pot. If the guy who reraised preflop reraises here, I fold right? And if he calls? What did he call with that I'm beating? Would he really call with a pocket pair below an ace? In my experience, people would assume an ace here.

Betting $ 10 seems fine, if CO folds and button calls (can't see that happening though given his stack), move all in on turn. Otherwise call his all in for $ 9.
If CO raises your bet there's a different situation.

[Hattifnatt]

That way he's committing himself against the button, and I don't like that at all.

Me neither, but that commitment is already caused by him calling the button's preflop re-raise. If he chooses to call that holding AJ, he implicitly chooses to commit himself on a flop like this. What else are you looking for, a KQT flop?

[scrapperdog]

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You will have much better spots to get that guys money.

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I hate the "better spot" philosophy. Poker is about making the right decisions every time, not just when they're easy.

[/ QUOTE ]

At the higher levels I would agree. In tourneyments where you have blind pressure I would agree. In low level cash games I fault no one that wants to wait for someone else to make a mistake, because a lot of mistakes are being made. This might not be pure poker, but it will get you the money.

I think its likely that the button is on A-high and not wanting to see a showdown. With your J, you are probably beat.

If you thought it was a continuation bet why not come over top of it?

interesting. what do you guys think of a c/r on this flop?

[Mercman572]

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He's first raise to $1.50 is totally fine (I make it $2 though). then it cost him $2.50 to take a flop with a good but not great hand.

I take the flop there and then be caucious further in the hand.

Just because you see a flop with a hand and hit, it doesnt mean you have to go all the way with it when you "hit".

And it was sooooited.

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I don't like calling raises with potentially dominated hands OOP

[Mercman572]

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interesting. what do you guys think of a c/r on this flop?

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I hate it. It allows villain to play perfectly after you do it. Fold smaller pairs, call with stronger aces in most cases.

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interesting. what do you guys think of a c/r on this flop?

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I hate it. It allows villain to play perfectly after you do it. Fold smaller pairs, call with stronger aces in most cases.

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oh right good point.

That ignores the distinct possibility that he's sick of my preflop raises and is just making a move.

[Hattifnatt]

Ok - so you fold to the $2.5 raise? That seems little weak to me, if you're play it cautently after the flop and is very aware that you might be dominated I think this call is in order with AJs (and for example KQs).

[Mercman572]

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That ignores the distinct possibility that he's sick of my preflop raises and is just making a move.

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the problem with the mathematical expectation of a checkraise is that it has to be highly successful to be profitable. he bets 5 into a $10 pot. there is now $15 in the pot. for you to make a proper bet you have to wager at LEAST %15 now, probably 20. So you're making a 1:1 bet and villain must fold more than 1/2 the time. In the event villain calls with a worse hand, you've still lost if he decides to push it when you check the turn.

[Mercman572]

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Ok - so you fold to the $2.5 raise? That seems little weak to me, if you're play it cautently after the flop and is very aware that you might be dominated I think this call is in order with AJs (and for example KQs).

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definitely fold. If you call and an A spikes what then? Betting will make smaller premium pairs fold and better hands call. The amount of times you are NOT dominated and can STILL get paid off OOP is probably nowhere close to the amount of times you will either lose on the flop or beyond. I'd rather call a raise with a suited connector.

so AJs is the devil? I agree with you for the most part. Ax loses money but a J is a strong kicker.

[Hattifnatt]

In this case I don't think it matter if its A4s or AJs but I call the 2.5 raise with both these hands.

[Mercman572]

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so AJs is the devil? I agree with you for the most part. Ax loses money but a J is a strong kicker.

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thats why its the devil. Its not strong ENOUGH in a raised pot and your hand is obvious when you make it

[Mercman572]

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In this case I don't think it matter if its A4s or AJs but I call the 2.5 raise with both these hands.

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calling with neither has significantly improved my winrate, unless the PF raiser is particularly bad

Once again, this is no ordinary raised pot. It's the fifth time in a row I've raised preflop.

[nietzreznor]

Given button's shortish stack, if you're gonna call his reraise preflop, you should be willing to get it all-in if an A hits. You certainly didn't call to hit a flush against a guy with 50bbs.

That's a very narrow attitute. I'm not going to decide preflop what I'm going to do and stick with that. My plan changes as I get more information about my opponent.

[nietzreznor]

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That's a very narrow attitute. I'm not going to decide preflop what I'm going to do and stick with that. My plan changes as I get more information about my opponent.

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What additional information have you gained in this hand? I really don't understand calling a reraise preflop with AJ, then, when you hit your A, calling the flop and folding the turn to a push that is only a 2/3 pot bet. Does he only reraise preflop and push the turn with AA or AK? If so you should have mentioned something to that extent as a read against this particular opponent. Otherwise, if I call a reraise preflop against a short stack, I do so hoping to get it all in with TP type hands. If I am not comfortable doing this, then I just fold preflop.

[rikz]

I would fold AJs out of position to a reraise. It's just too weak. You really need a flush or a pair and a flush draw, or the nut straight to be confident that you are ahead. A J-high flop puts you in a bad spot because you're out of position and possibly up against an overpair. An A-high flop like this is tough because any re-raising hand in LP with an A in it has you beat (AK, AA, AQs). So, while I think the initial raise is fine, I'd fold to the reraise.

As it played out, I'd lead into him on the flop to find out how good your TPWK is. It's possible that villain has KK or QQ and will give you credit for an A if you make a bet into him on the flop. I don't like check/call or check/raise since you are either giving up the initiative with the check/call or bloating the pot out of position with a TPWK hand with a check/raise.

Folding on the turn, as the hand played out, is probably best.

[Lucky]

It's depends how lag you think your image. If this guys in any way NIT-ish, you're probably beaten.

I call PF and lead on flop for at least 3/4 of pot. Show him you have something, want to play, its not the time for him to get crazy with his KK or AT. If he raises you there, you can be done with it. You can also c/r on flop.

Bottom line, and this is what people can sometimes forget, you werent called PF, but RERAISED. That means different things from different people depending on texture of game.

[kurto]

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Villain's play looks like a premium pair, doesn't it?

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If I'm at a table with a LAG who is constantly raising, I'd reraise with AK.

If he's running over the table and only gets played back at this time, let it go.

This is a case where the only thing he's likely ahead of is a pocket pair (that didn't hit a set). If the other guy has an ace, I'd feel pretty confident that he's dominated.

[kurto]

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That ignores the distinct possibility that he's sick of my preflop raises and is just making a move.

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Most weak tight players wait for a chance to tackle the (perceived) LAG with a hand they know dominates the stuff he's likely playing.

He either has pocket Kings that missed or he has you crushed.

[TheWorstPlayer]

Call turn. Looks like KK/QQ. Obviously could be AA, but only one combination and people will make this desperation bluff enough on turn to show profit.

[Leptyne]

I think that's a distinct possibility. However I think you've overlooked the stack-size problem. When the short stack makes his CB how is he going to get away if you call? Looks like the short stack is committed. A good flop would be a J with two rags, a great flop would be a J with a flush draw. You have to consider this flop a miss and fold to his continuation bet.

[kurto]

"Looks like KK/QQ." Or AK

[Benholio]

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"Looks like KK/QQ." Or AK

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There are 12 ways to make KK/QQ and 8 ways to make AK. You only need to win the hand ~28% of the time to make calling the turn correct. If he can do this with a high pair (non-aces) then you are priced in. Worst case scenario, put his range at AA/AK/AQ/KK, and you still basically break even with a call.

I'm really thinking a call would have been right here.

[Mercman572]

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I'm really thinking a call would have been right here.

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definitely given flop call and turn check