What flop decisions do you struggle with most?

[Lash]

What decisions / concepts do you struggle with the most on the flop ?

I’m tearing apart my flop play and looking for ideas outside of the ones I’ve already come up with. Thanks in advance for your response.

[Megenoita]

I struggle most in HU to 3-handed hands with whether I should continue with an A-high hand. The flop is really where you develop your plan for the whole hand, so it's a loaded question you're asking.

M

[helpmeout]

bottom pair oop

[kiddo]

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The flop is really where you develop your plan for the whole hand, so it's a loaded question you're asking.

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Yep, when u are playing good poker every flop develops like a treestructure in your head where u know what to do in each possible situation. If it doesnt, well, there you got something to struggle with.

[imported_leader]

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The flop is really where you develop your plan for the whole hand, so it's a loaded question you're asking.

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Yep, when u are playing good poker every flop develops like a treestructure in your head where u know what to do in each possible situation. If it doesnt, well, there you got something to struggle with.

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You can take that thinking to far thou. i.e. You can start doing thinks that aren't best just to make your decisions later in the hand easier. "Raising for information" comes to mind.

[kiddo]

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You can take that thinking to far thou. i.e. You can start doing thinks that aren't best just to make your decisions later in the hand easier. "Raising for information" comes to mind.


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I totally agree. But I am not sure it always is a question about taking it to far, sometimes its more lik: "Hm, Im playing many tables and want an easy decision on turn and if I raise for info I will probably get that."

I think one of the main problems for players struggling with moving up from limits like 3/6 is that they arent good enough at this skill. They dont see all the combinations there are (of course noone does).

Many players think that they learn most poker while they play, but I would say this is an example of that this isnt always so. Some genius can learn to see whole hand on flop by playing hand after hand after hand, but it is so complicated that most of us must do it off-tabletime.

One obvious example: In a loose lowlimit game it often is pretty ok to do loose calls on flop. It often isnt -EV. But not thinking on flop and just doing ur standard call with 4 outs and then suddenly have to wake up on turn if u hit something ok but not great and then try to reconstruct the betting from preflop and flop and try to know what to do on turn. Well, this can cost u a lot of $. You cant wait with your plan untill you hit.

[imported_leader]

I think that's a problem with a lot of 3/6 players. These are the types of players that have an AF of like 4 (mine was 4.5 before I figured this out) because they are trying to always make the right decision, which sounds like a good thing, but it isn't. Sometimes in poker you have to call down and lose because calling down is the right pay. Certain players hate doing this so they raise the flop for information get 3-bet and fold the turn UI. The problem with that kind of thinking is two fold. First, there are a lot of LAGs in 6m who will 3-bet with nothing thus forcing you to fold the best hand, and second, that almost every time it goes bet-raise-call on the flop and check-bet-fold on the turn your out between .5-1.5 BB. That adds up to a lot rather quickly.

Heh, often when I get 3-bet in 6max 3-6 I take it a bit more seriously than that. That being said, I pretty much play exclusively with LPs. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Generally I struggle when I'm a preflop raiser and I suspect 2 of the other people in the hand are trying to raise me out of the pot.

[Trix]

When I flop weak hands from the big blind in raised pots probably.

[sublime]

What flop decisions do you struggle with most?

when i dont flop a set

[Stinkybeaver]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The flop is really where you develop your plan for the whole hand, so it's a loaded question you're asking.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, when u are playing good poker every flop develops like a treestructure in your head where u know what to do in each possible situation. If it doesnt, well, there you got something to struggle with.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm definately not doing this enough, so is there a good way to start some practice in this skill..?

The thing that I struggle with on the flop is if I should bet out when I'm the preflop raiser on a lame board. I think I do this way to much since it seems that the lags at 3/6 will give me enough action when I hit and will go to showdown with a single piece of the board.

[Lash]

I feel like I may lack a practical understanding of when and why I should be betting /raising on the flop as opposed to waiting until the turn. In other words, when and why to apply maximum pressure with made hands.

The above is of course complicated by hand strength, position and many other factors...but regardless of what all the variables are... this seems to be the area I question most when looking at flop scenarios.

[jba]

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What flop decisions do you struggle with most?

when i dont flop a set

[/ QUOTE ]

ha nice one.

seriously though, I never really feel all that lost on the flop or the river, it's the turn that is the real bitch


flop play is a science river play is an art and the turn is some f'd up voodoo

[Lash]

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not thinking on flop and just doing ur standard call with 4 outs and then suddenly have to wake up on turn if u hit something ok but not great and then try to reconstruct the betting from preflop and flop and try to know what to do on turn.

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That’s exactly why I’m on this “flop tangent” in breaking down my game. I often find myself analyzing a turn or river decision only to find that I have no clue how I got to that point.

It seems only natural to analyze what brought you to various turn and river decisions. In other words… What was your plan on the flop? What was your motive, your blueprint for the action?

I realize that pre-flop is where it all really starts, but so much changes on the flop that it seems like a logical place to look when re-building ones game. I’m not often in flop situations wondering what got me there, but I am often wondering where I’m going.

[Lash]

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flop play is a science river play is an art and the turn is some f'd up voodoo

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I understand what you are saying and have similar inclinations. It’s just that I was surprised to find myself continually coming back to the flop when analyzing almost any street of any given hand. This tipped me off that my flop play is not all that great, or at the very least I often lack meaningful motive when making flop decisions. And isn't it odd that there isn't more focus on the "science" of flop play by players who are trying to improve their game? Flop decisions are second only to pre-flop as far as how frequently you have to make them.

As for the turn… I thought I had my turn play pretty well dialed in until I started looking at tough river decisions I was finding myself having to make. It seems to me that river decisions have the potential to be some of the toughest ones in general… In any case, for the time being I’m sticking to the flop.