View Full Version : Is this statement 100% true?
Annulus
10-26-2005, 04:34 AM
Pocket Kings should never be folded preflop at partypoker in the $33s or $55s regardless of the betting action.
Irregardless is not a word, so no.
Annulus
10-26-2005, 04:39 AM
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Irregardless is not a word, so no.
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you prolly suck at poker so your opinion does not count. anyways, "regardless".
if you're aware that another player is a tremendous TAG player, and he is aware that you're a tremendous TAG player...and you both somehow have accumulated abnormally large early level chip stacks...and he has pushed all-in after a pre-flop re-raise...........then.......maybe
generally........... no.
Scuba Chuck
10-26-2005, 04:40 AM
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Irregardless is not a word, so no.
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You are correct sir. proof (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=3690230&page=&view=&s b=5&o=&vc=1)
Annulus
10-26-2005, 04:44 AM
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Irregardless is not a word, so no.
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You are correct sir. proof (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=3690230&page=&view=&s b=5&o=&vc=1)
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you shouldn't sweat the small things in life /images/graemlins/laugh.gif.
MikeyObviously
10-26-2005, 04:44 AM
no. it is not 100 percent true.
To reword the folding AA part of Sklansky on tourney poker...lets say you are in 4th with 100 chips and the other three stacks are 3300 each. If all 3 of them go all in you should fold. This is the most extreme example, but there are much less extreme examples where you would fold KK and AA as well.
Annulus
10-26-2005, 04:46 AM
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no. it is not 100 percent true.
To reword the folding AA part of Sklansky on tourney poker...lets say you are in 4th with 100 chips and the other three stacks are 3300 each. If all 3 of them go all in you should fold. This is the most extreme example, but there are much less extreme examples where you would fold KK and AA as well.
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I think sklansky is talking about a mTT. my understand in STT theory is that you should never pass up any edges ever. heck, were not worried about busting out.
folding in the aforementioned scenario is absolutely correct...
Annulus
10-26-2005, 04:49 AM
OK, i see your point in that extreme example. But, i guess my question is in general and not in any extreme situations.
if you have kk, and i re-raise you all-in, you should fold.
Scuba Chuck
10-26-2005, 04:55 AM
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OK, i see your point in that extreme example. But, i guess my question is in general and not in any extreme situations.
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Is this statement 100% true?
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Annulus
10-26-2005, 05:17 AM
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OK, i see your point in that extreme example. But, i guess my question is in general and not in any extreme situations.
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Is this statement 100% true?
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Oh Gesus christ Scuba stop being such a cyber natzi. I asked a question. Yes or NO.
Melchiades
10-26-2005, 05:21 AM
The [censored] are you on about. No, it is not 100% true, as has been pointed out. Since there are extreme examples when folding KK is correct. You asked and got an answer. You wouldn't be doing much wrong if you never ever in your life folded KK preflop in a SnG though. So maybe it's 98% true.
bawcerelli
10-26-2005, 05:22 AM
Gesus is not a word, so no.
Hendricks433
10-26-2005, 06:59 AM
This Thread has gone to Hell. I think theres a time where you might be correct to fold but that time might come up once or twice in your life. But I think if you never fold it PF then youll probally be just fine. Or if its a satellite type deal or where top 3 spots move on and your on the bubble and theres action where your basically guaranteed a money spot if you fold.
AbelM
10-26-2005, 07:06 AM
I can't even remember when i folded QQ preflop in the 215's.
durron597
10-26-2005, 07:07 AM
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Pocket Kings should never be folded preflop at partypoker in the $33s or $55s regardless of the betting action.
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You will see QQ or AK often enough with "I HAVE AA" betting action that no, you should never fold.
SCfuji
10-26-2005, 07:19 AM
dont forget that youll flop a K when you do run into AA.
zambonidrivr
10-26-2005, 08:21 AM
i won't fold pocket kings at any level or any limit preflop. not even at the world series, with 4 people all in before me on the first hand.
tigerite
10-26-2005, 08:35 AM
Or TT, or AQ, or 88.. just about anything with the donks around, to be honest.
bigt439
10-26-2005, 09:08 AM
I was the third one in with KK from the bb in a 55 yesterday, and was up against AQo and A6s. So no, never fold, except for the aforementioned ridiculous bubble scenarios.
downtown
10-26-2005, 10:41 AM
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Pocket Kings should never be folded preflop at partypoker in the $33s or $55s regardless of the betting action.
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Here's an example of a $55 hand I played this past Monday.
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)
MP1 (t1000)
MP2 (t1000)
Hero (t1000)
CO (t1000)
Button (t1000)
SB (t1000)
BB (t1000)
UTG (t1000)
UTG+1 (t1000)
UTG+2 (t1000)
Preflop:
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls t15, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t75</font>, CO calls t75, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises to t1000 (All-In)</font>, BB calls t985 (All-In), UTG+1 folds, MPC folds, CO folds.
As Hero, I fold QQ here only with a read (i.e. I've played you a few times before and I have some sort of notes), and I call KK regardless (<-- /images/graemlins/smile.gif ) of read. I did fold QQ here because I did have notes and a read on the SB from previous games, and got to see KK from the SB. I would have called if it was two randoms.
I can't imagine the situation where I'd fold KK in a $33 or $55 SNG. Even with a very strong read, there is just too much chance it could be AKs or QQ.
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dont forget that youll flop a K when you do run into AA.
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I hate this reasoning. I've always hated this reasoning and I don't understand why people use it.
Nicholasp27
10-26-2005, 11:16 AM
i don't think anyone uses it as reasoning
it's just a joke
fluorescenthippo
10-26-2005, 11:23 AM
i folded KK at a 55 lvl 1.
utg limps, MP1 minraises, I reraises from CO, SB reraises around half his stack, utg limp reraises all in, MP1 calls.
im still not sure if i liked my fold. they turned up QQ, JJ, and 99 or something.
Nicholasp27
10-26-2005, 11:24 AM
they turn up things other than AA often enough to make it +ev to push/call push with KK
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i don't think anyone uses it as reasoning
it's just a joke
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I see it waaaaay too often without the smiley faces for it to be a joke. I think people actually factor the chances that they will hit into their decision, and neglect to factor in the chance that someone else will hit on them if they're the one ahead.
MegaBet
10-26-2005, 11:43 AM
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i don't think anyone uses it as reasoning
it's just a joke
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I see it waaaaay too often without the smiley faces for it to be a joke. I think people actually factor the chances that they will hit into their decision, and neglect to factor in the chance that someone else will hit on them if they're the one ahead.
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kyro, you need a doctor...your sarcasm detector is broken.
Exitonly
10-26-2005, 11:52 AM
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I think people actually factor the chances that they will hit into their decision
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This should be part of your decision?
you still have 20% to crack aces.. why wouldn't your chance to win vs one of his possible hands, be a factor in making yoru decision?
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i don't think anyone uses it as reasoning
it's just a joke
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I see it waaaaay too often without the smiley faces for it to be a joke. I think people actually factor the chances that they will hit into their decision, and neglect to factor in the chance that someone else will hit on them if they're the one ahead.
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kyro, you need a doctor...your sarcasm detector is broken.
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OMG GET OUT OF MY FACE MORON BEFORE I SPONTANEOUSLY COMBUST INTO A PILE OF CRAP!
Then all these people need to stop recreating the same joke because I see it EVERYWHERE.
zipppy
10-26-2005, 11:56 AM
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i won't fold pocket kings at any level or any limit preflop. not even at the world series, with 4 people all in before me on the first hand.
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i can't tell if my sarcasm detector is broken.
ridiculous.
spell checker still works.
So why don't people say
"Well you're only 80% to win against QQs...so be careful?
Come up with a range and find out how often you'll win. You can't include just the chance you'll crack AA and not the chances you'll be cracked. You're inflating your chance of winning.
Exitonly
10-26-2005, 11:59 AM
alright, yea that's what i meant. just souunded wierd how you phrased it the first time.
stupidsucker
10-26-2005, 12:19 PM
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Pocket Kings should never be folded preflop at partypoker in the $33s or $55s regardless of the betting action.
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This statement is not 100% true.
There are rare cases to fold KK and even AA preflop. Most of the time they come from extreme bubble situations.
Plug these numbers into SNGPT.
BB(hero) 3117
SB 3117
BTN 1557
Co 209
Blinds are 100-200
CO and BTN fold
SB pushes
KK is an easy fold here acording to the ICM
This example may not be perfect, but it is an example that isnt far fetched at all.
edit... I find this thread interesting, because there are people who strenly believe that they should never fold KK preflop. There are lots of places to fold it. All of them are at least semi extreme.
If you play enough poker, you WILL run into times where it is correct to fold them preflop. Ignorning this will likely not cost you a whole lot of money in the long run, but in a lifetime your sample size wont ever be large enough to cover the variance. I am just guessing the numbers.
bones
10-26-2005, 12:48 PM
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Pocket Kings should never be folded preflop at partypoker in the $33s or $55s regardless of the betting action.
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It's been my experience that searching for absolutes in poker will get you no closer to any kind of real understanding.
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