Party 20/40 - 99 [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

shant

10-26-2005, 02:47 AM

I don't think I played this very well. Thoughts on a turn/river line?

MP1: Big preflop LAG, slows down postflop - 57/35/1.4
UTG+2: Loose-pasive preflop, gets aggressive on the big streets - 53/0.9/1.3

Party Poker 20/40 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: I am MP3 with 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 raises, 1 fold, I 3-bet, 4 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) T/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
UTG+2 checks, MP1 checks, I bet, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (6.75 BB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
UTG+2 bets, MP1 calls, I?

ArturiusX

10-26-2005, 03:06 AM

Arg, this situation sucks.

Steve Giufre

10-26-2005, 03:25 AM

I dont really think it matters as long as you dont fold. I like raising the turn little better than just calling. The guy in the middle might fold 6 outs, and you can charge the flush draws this way. Decide what to do on the river once you get there. If you think the LAG might three bet bluff you then just call down.

toss

10-26-2005, 04:06 AM

You say UTG+2 is loose passive, but likes to get aggr. on the turn and the river. So that means we'd like to showdown in this situation. We either call or raise the turn. UTG+2 is either betting out with a lower pocket pair, maybe flush draw, sometimes a T, maybe a even a 3. I like raising since MP1 is trapped for another bet and we extract more value from UTG+2 if he's betting with a worse hand. I'm probably going to check behind on most rivers here since I still fear a better hand from UTG+2. Or maybe we need to value bet. Really depends on what UTG+2 hand ragne is.

DeeJ

10-26-2005, 05:49 AM

raise or fold.

JacksonTens

10-26-2005, 07:24 AM

Raise to charge the FD, and hurt him if he's semibluffing.

Then check behind on the river. I don't like calling, and I think it's too tough to find a fold.

JT /images/graemlins/spade.gif

stoxtrader

10-26-2005, 08:44 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I dont really think it matters as long as you dont fold. I like raising the turn little better than just calling. The guy in the middle might fold 6 outs, and you can charge the flush draws this way. Decide what to do on the river once you get there. If you think the LAG might three bet bluff you then just call down.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is pretty darn good. The presence of a 3rd player in the pot makes a raise the play I think, but its close, because a 3 bet semi-bluff from a LAG is very possible if he has a flush draw, and not that bad of a play either. I would still raise, and fold to a 3 bet. You just get too much equity from the overcaller here. Also you will get a free showdown out of it some of the time as as well.

BoxTree

10-26-2005, 09:08 AM

Raise the turn (and fold to a 3-bet) for the reasons already stated.

But the river can get interesting.

Let's assume you raised. What was the river card?

Jeffage

10-26-2005, 10:50 AM

Raise. He might have turned a club draw or flopped a draw and decided to bet out. Or he has you beat. But I'm going upstairs here.

Jeff

shant

10-26-2005, 12:48 PM

OK so raise and fold to 3-bet is what I did.

Party Poker 20/40 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: I am MP3 with 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 raises, 1 fold, I 3-bet, 4 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) T/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
UTG+2 checks, MP1 checks, I bet, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (6.75 BB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
UTG+2 bets, MP1 calls, I raise, UTG+2 3-bets, MP1 calls, I fold.

River: (14.75 BB) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
UTG+2 checks, MP1 bets, UTG+2 folds.

Final Pot: 15.75 BB

Jeffage

10-26-2005, 12:52 PM

Is there really a reason to withold results at this point? /images/graemlins/cool.gif

Jeff

10-26-2005, 01:17 PM

I do not like raising this turn with the intention of folding to a 3 bet, since you are last to act, raising will not protect your hand, So one of the biggest reasons to raise the turn is not present. A raise for value looks right if we are against an opponent that will never 3 bet bluff in this spot,but you have to have a pretty solid read that this wont happen to make raising right. Since you dont know the villain that well, and raising wont protect your hand, I think its best to just call down. When the pot gets big, it is sometimes best to play your hand in such a way that you never fold the winner, then to try to extract out all the value you can. Also if there was an opponent behind me, I wouldve raised and folded to a 3 bet, becuz now protecting my hand in this large pot is more important than the risk of getting outplayed. You cant protect your hand in your situation so dont take the risk of getting outplayed.

Eric P

10-26-2005, 01:58 PM

my first thought is raise. With my second being to fold. Never call here. I lean towards raising.

10-26-2005, 02:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
my first thought is raise. With my second being to fold. Never call here. I lean towards raising.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think this is very poor advice, there are plenty of variables that could be in play, that would make calling here the best or all 3 options.