This hand is a mess. [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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hobbsmann

10-25-2005, 09:18 PM

Plan?

Party Poker 15.00/30.00 Hold'em (10 handed) link (http://www.darksun.lunarpages.com/poker/)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
1 folds, UTG+1 calls, 1 folds, Hero raises, MP2 calls, 1 folds, CO calls, Button 3-bets, SB calls, 1 folds, UTG+1 calls, Hero caps, MP2 calls, CO is all-in ($30.00), Button calls, SB calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (25.00 SB) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (6 players, 1 all-in)
SB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero.

toss

10-25-2005, 09:22 PM

I think bet/fold is the best course of action. Button is probably less likely to raise without a K with one guy all-in.

Piiop

10-25-2005, 09:24 PM

Pot big....bet fold bad. Bet is good.

JacksonTens

10-25-2005, 09:25 PM

Check the flop. See how the action develops behind you, then make a decision.

JT /images/graemlins/spade.gif

hobbsmann

10-25-2005, 09:25 PM

is there is anything wrong with check/calling?

Borodog

10-25-2005, 09:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
is there is anything wrong with check/calling?

[/ QUOTE ]

Given the recent hand I posted with TT vs a Q on the flop, I think not. There are no draws to protect against. You're WA/WB.

toss

10-25-2005, 09:39 PM

I forgot we have the odds to draw to two outs should we bet and get raised.

Bet/call...

And if we check we'll let the other guys in the hand have odds to draw for two outs.

hobbsmann

10-25-2005, 09:50 PM

No need to start a new thread. Same table as above hand, pfr is a TAG, and CC'ers are loose monkeys.

Everybody like?

Party Poker 15.00/30.00 Hold'em (10 handed) link (http://www.darksun.lunarpages.com/poker/)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls, 1 folds, UTG+2 raises, 4 folds, Button calls, SB calls, Hero 3-bets, 1 folds, UTG+2 caps, Button calls, SB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (17.00 SB) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG+2 bets, Button folds, SB calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (10.00 BB) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
SB bets, Hero calls, UTG+2 calls.

River: (13.00 BB) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets

Borodog

10-25-2005, 09:52 PM

Lovely. What do you do if you don't flush on the river?

slavic

10-25-2005, 09:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Check the flop. See how the action develops behind you, then make a decision.

JT /images/graemlins/spade.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't like this line at all. You obligate the other player to bet, and if he's bet into he's obligated to raise any decent hand, even things you beat.

hobbsmann

10-25-2005, 09:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
What do you do if you don't flush on the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

fold. Unless of course I hit a Q.

Nick C

10-25-2005, 10:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Plan?

Party Poker 15.00/30.00 Hold'em (10 handed) link (http://www.darksun.lunarpages.com/poker/)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
1 folds, UTG+1 calls, 1 folds, Hero raises, MP2 calls, 1 folds, CO calls, Button 3-bets, SB calls, 1 folds, UTG+1 calls, Hero caps, MP2 calls, CO is all-in ($30.00), Button calls, SB calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (25.00 SB) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (6 players, 1 all-in)
SB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess I'd bet, mainly in an effort to avoid being bluffed by two other players with worse pocket pairs.

But it's hard for me to imagine you're ahead here very often at all.

And after you bet and get called in a few spots (and you will get called, if you don't get raised), what the hell do you do on the turn?

Bet again, I guess, but this certainly isn't a hand I'd be enjoying.

W. Deranged

10-25-2005, 10:52 PM

Hobbs,

This is pretty interesting. It's really complicated by the fact that your position is horrible. Being sandwiched between the four players is bad, particularly with an aggressor still left to act behind you. I think there's a lot to be said for checking since you're kind of WA/WB, but you'd love anyone with an A to fold here, and even lower pocket pairs are getting odds to continue. The main deterrent from betting here is that you have to call a raise, but, honestly, in a 25 SB pot when we're only talking about small bets, I think 2 bets is hardly an overwhelming price to pay for possible protection, avoiding getting bluffed off a hand, occassionally getting calls from worse hands when you're ahead, and so on and so forth. Checking opens yourself up to getting blown off the hand not just here but on later streets.

So I think you should probably bet and reevaluate. There's no way to suggest all possible turn plans, but you almost certainly will be seeing the turn unless it's two cold back to you. I'd plan on probably checking the turn the majority of the time.

hobbsmann

10-25-2005, 11:18 PM

So for the 1st hand I did what most suggested. I bet, button raised, various people called, I called and then check/folded a blank turn.

jskills

10-25-2005, 11:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
is there is anything wrong with check/calling?

[/ QUOTE ]

Given the recent hand I posted with TT vs a Q on the flop, I think not. There are no draws to protect against. You're WA/WB.

[/ QUOTE ]

I could agree with this one. It's a good path to take against a good player for sure.

I am wondering without reads, the range of hands the button will 3-bet with could be pretty wide. Let's take this range of hands AA-99,AK,AQ,AQs,AJs,KQs. I was goofing around with Pokerstove and the QQ has 58.77% of equity preflop vs this range. After the flop, it still has 54.1%, so maybe we can bet / call the flop and take it from there? My logic could be off ...

otis_nixon

10-26-2005, 12:13 AM

one line i think would have to check and hope the blinds go away, and then I would probably get to showdown

another is you could check raise him that is depending on the play of the blinds, and if you get three bet you know where your at for sure then. this would be my line