A trifecta of poorly played hands. [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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Borodog

10-25-2005, 09:10 PM

These 3 hands occurred within 5 deals on an excellent table, and I felt like I played all of them poorly. Comments on any/all are appreciated.

Villain in the first hand is TAG, 17-7.6-3.7 over 270 hands.

Villain in second hand is TP, 21-6-1.0, but only over 30 hands.

Villain in 3rd hand is 51-5-2.8 donk over 100 hands.

Hand 1
Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 1 fold, CO calls, 2 folds, Hero checks.

Flop: (4.50 SB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, MP2 folds, CO folds, Hero raises, MP1 3-bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.25 BB) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, Hero calls.

River: (7.25 BB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9.25 BB

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Hand 2
Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls, 4 folds, Hero raises, 1 fold, SB 3-bets, 1 fold, UTG calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
SB bets, UTG calls, Hero raises, SB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (8 BB) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, SB calls, UTG calls.

River: (11 BB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 11 BB

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Hand 3
Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, 3 folds, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 bets, MP1 folds, Hero raises, BB folds, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (6.25 BB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero checks.

River: (6.25 BB) A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 6.25 BB

alul

10-25-2005, 09:54 PM

I'd play all of them differently.

1. Bet the turn, fold to a raise.
2. Value bet the river.
3. You must bet the turn.

It doesn't mean I'm right, this is just how I'd play these hands.

newhizzle

10-25-2005, 09:59 PM

id just bet out on the flop in hand 1, then either 3-bet or call/donk turn, call down to any more aggression

hand 2 i think you can bet the river

bet the turn in hand 3, im not sure about the river

Piiop

10-25-2005, 10:01 PM

1 - I'd usually just bet out on this flop. Since you didn't the c/r is good after everyone else folds, but once he 3-bets you have to put him on a hand that he bets the river with. Do you think you beat/split anything? I don't.

2 - Bet the river. You'll be called by a 5, 88, 66 from UTG and sometimes from AK from the SB. Fold to a raise.

3 - Bet the turn, call a raise, fold the river unimproved. If he calls the turn, bet the river depending on the card, in this case I'd check.

Nick C

10-25-2005, 10:15 PM

Hand 1: I'd probably lead the flop. After I checked instead, I'd probably just call and then think about donking the turn. But against a TAG who's as aggressive as Villain, there's a good chance I'd just check-call it down.

I think what you did is better than any line that involves folding on blanks, against this 3.7 AF guy.

Hand 2: I think you should bet the river (though I might've checked behind too). The rest seems okay to me.

Hand 3: I don't really mind the turn check, versus your LAG opponent. It's hard to know who's drawing, and it wouldn't be much fun getting checkraised (you can't fold, and you still wouldn't know who's drawing). That said, it seems likely to me that a turn bet would be for value.

After the turn gets checked through, I'm thinking a river bet might be a good idea. A difficulty, though, is that if Villain plays like his LAG stats suggest, I don't think you have an easy fold to a checkraise.

Anyway, on the whole, I don't think these hands are as bad as your title makes it sound like they are.

Borodog

10-25-2005, 10:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Anyway, on the whole, I don't think these hands are as bad as your title makes it sound like they are.

[/ QUOTE ]

It was hard for me to be objective at the time, as I lost all 3 hands. Trying not to be results oriented though. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

SoSo

10-25-2005, 10:26 PM

Hand 1: this is a really easy laydown on the flop, but i would prefer to lead to find out if im drawing dead/in trouble here.

Hand 2: I like it, u maybe missing 2 bets here from now value-betting but who knows. I would check it just to avoid being c/red by the flush (if there is one)

Hand 3: i think u have to semi-bluff this turn, gutshot + 3rd nut flush draw as well as 2nd pair. i don't mind a river check as long as u bet the turn.

crazygoose

10-25-2005, 10:58 PM

It sounds like you might have been tilting a bit. Hand 1-call the three bet and fold the turn UI (if he has a Q I think you are outkicked, I don't see him threebetting a 9 to a cr, Maybe he hit the flush) Hand 2-must VB that turn. Hand 3-must bet that turn, fold to a cr, bet any non K or A river (considering his post flop AF I think he is leading a lot into on that flop and calling all the way down with it).

felix83

10-26-2005, 12:59 AM

I don't mind hand 2. I think the turn bet on hand 3 is pretty key. Hand 1 is just a tough go all the way, but I don't think I'd take it past the turn. It seems to be the kind of hand I can't play right.

shant

10-26-2005, 01:38 AM

Hand 1: I fold the turn.

Hand 2: Bet the river.

Hand 3: Looks fine to me..

W. Deranged

10-26-2005, 04:29 AM

My lines would be:

1. Check-call the flop and donk a safe turn against a relatively normal opponent. I don't see you getting raised by a worse hand on that board all that often unless villain is known to be tricky. Check-raising an EP bet just seems to put you in an awful spot.

2. This is just a clear river value bet.

3. I generally bet the turn, but, honestly, it's pretty close between betting and checking. Betting is good for value and because you are vulnerable to overcards. Checking is good because you have outs and the donkish, aggro. villain may raise you and charge to much. Checking also keep you from getting raised off the best hand and may induce a bluff later. I think very good arguments can be made for both and I am really can't confidently say which one is generally better.

bigalt

10-26-2005, 06:11 AM

[ QUOTE ]

2. This is just a clear river value bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

What hands are we getting value from here? Granted hands that beat us that are only calling are unlikely but what are we hoping to call us here? 88? AK?

lautzutao

10-26-2005, 08:07 AM

Why aren't you leading the flop in hand 1?

shant

10-26-2005, 12:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Why aren't you leading the flop in hand 1?

[/ QUOTE ]
Good point, I'm leading the flop in Hand 1.

shant

10-26-2005, 01:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

2. This is just a clear river value bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

What hands are we getting value from here? Granted hands that beat us that are only calling are unlikely but what are we hoping to call us here? 88? AK?

[/ QUOTE ]
All lower pocket pairs as well as 5x, 2x, and A-high.