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View Full Version : Short 58 hand HU match vs Unknown


Schneids
10-25-2005, 08:03 PM
Never seen this name/opponent before. So, we'll all make some reads as we go. SBB, $100/200.


1) I fold 43o in SB.


2) I defend with Qc8h.
Flop J4Kr. I check and fold.

3) I raise with Kc2d, he calls.
Flop Qs5d3d he check and folds.

4) I fold 73o in BB.

5) I raise with Ac3c, he reraises, I call.
Flop 2d4h9s. He checks, I check.
Turn 4d. He bets, I call. I’m a little suspicious about his action so far but I think I want to see a showdown.
River Tc. He bets, I call, I lose to KK.

6) I defend with J7.
Flop K7Tr. I c/r he calls.
Turn Jc two clubs now I bet he calls.
River 9d I bet he folds. I think this is a bet because I want him to wonder what I c/r the flop with and I want him to pay to see if he’s curious to see if I’m running a bluff.

7) I raise Ad4h, he 3 bets, I call.
Flop JcTc2d he bets I fold. So far I’m playing really snug. Thinking about mixing it up a little more soon.

8) He folds SB.

9) I fold Td2d in SB.

10) He raises, I reraise with 7h3c, he calls.
Flop JsTc9c I bet he raises I call.
Turn 4d I check and fold.

11) I raise 76o he calls then check folds to my bet on a J42r flop.

12) I defend with Qc6h then check fold a Ah2d7h flop. I don’t really think I need to start pressing yet, I just want to keep patient since so far I have not been flopping too well. No worries though, I tell myself.

13) I raise with J7o he calls.
Flop K84r flop he bets into me, I fold. This is often a good flop to fight back at but something with his bet timing makes me believe he has something. I’ll keep the zen and keep patient (often a bad thing HU but occasionally good).

14) He completes, I check with 92o.
Flop Jd8c7h I check and fold. Yup, I’m trying really hard to be passive and wait this out. His limp scares me, if I see him do it more often I might start betting out this hand.

15) I raise with 8c7c and he folds.

16) I fold my 52o BB to his raise.

17) I raise with Kd4d and he folds.

18) He completes, I raise with AsTs, he calls.
Flop KhJd7s. I bet, he calls.
Turn 2h. I check, he bets. Ok, time to try cashing in on my image. I raise. He folds, yay!

19) I limp with Ac4s, he raises, I call. After that last hand I want him to think I’m going back into my shell, content with finally winning a pot. I’m hoping he tries to bully me around again and get back control.
Flop Tc7d4d he checks I bet he raises I call.
Turn 7h he bets I call. I contemplate a raise but don’t think the reasons for doing so justify one.
River 9c he bets I call, he shows KhQd, I win. I’m now in the lead for the first time this match, up $35.

20) He raises, I 3bet with ThTs, he calls.
Flop Kh8h4h. I bet he quickly calls.
Turn 9s. I bet he quickly calls.
River Tc. Well, I think he has a heart draw so I check. He checks behind. Damn.

21) I raise with Ks7c, he reraises, I call.
Flop JhTd3h. He bets, I call.
Turn 8d. He bets, I call. Given the past history I don’t think he is going to bet a river expecting me to fold, so I think I will often be able to get a free showdown or bluff the river if the card is nice. Plus my gutshot is often good and king is often good.
River 8h. He bets, I fold.

22) He raises, I reraise with 7d6c, he 4 bets I call.
Flop Ad3s5h I check he checks.
Turn 2h I check he checks.
River 6h I check he bets I call he wins with 88. I think it would have maybe been better to bet/fold this river as it’s more likely he will call with KQ/KJ than bet it after checking it this long.

23) I raise J4o he calls then folds to my flop bet on a Q36r board.

24) He folds his SB.

25) I raise with Jd7d, he calls.
Flop Ac6s6c, he c/r me and I fold.

26) I defend with J4o then check/fold a KQ8r flop.

27) I raise with T9o, he calls.
Flop KdJs6s. He c/r me I 3 bet he calls.
Turn Jd, he checks I bet he calls.
River 6d. I don’t think he’ll call with board. So, I bet after he checks, and he calls… with K8. I lose and now down a little over $2000.

28) He folds his SB.

29) I raise with AhQd, he 3 bets, I 4bet he calls.
Flop 7s6s9c. He checks I check.
Turn 3d. He checks I bet he calls.
River 5h he checks I check and beat his AdTs. I’m playing so passively today.

30) He limps, I check with 8h5h.
As8sQh flop, I check and call.
Turn 4s I check he checks.
River 7s I bet he folds.

31) I complete with Qc4h he checks.
KhQd2s flop he bets I raise he folds.

32) He raises, I call with Ad6c.
Flop AcJh7d. I c/r him he 3 bets I call. After that last hand I think c/r is def the best play because he’s going to have a hard time letting himself get blown off two pots in a row. I think I’ll let him take the lead this time.
Turn Th. I check, he checks. I suck.
River 3h. I bet he calls I win.

33) I fold 94o in the SB.

34) He completes, I raise with 4h2h, he calls.
Flop 9d6c3s. I bet he calls.
Turn 8h. One more shot… I bet, he calls. Ok can’t win.
River 7h. I check, he checks behind with J8 and wins.

35) I fold 63o in SB. Presently down $1000.

36) I defend with 8c5d (sssssh mike l).
Flop Kh6s3c. I check intending to c/r. He checks behind.
Turn 4d. I check because I think he checked intending to go to showdown. He checks.
River 6d. I check, he checks and wins with A8o.

37) I raise with Qs3d he calls.
Flop 5h3cTs. He bets, I raise, he 3 bets I call.
Turn 2h. He checks, I check.
River 3h. He checks, I bet he calls and I win. I’m guessing he had A2 or 24 or something.

38) I defend with Qh3h and check/fold a Kd5s4c flop.

39) I raise with Js6d, he calls.
Flop Ac9c7c. He checks I check.
Turn 5h. He bets, I raise, he calls.
River Kh. He checks, I bet, he folds.

40) He folds his SB. We’re tied again.

41) He folds his BB to my raise with AsQs.

42) I defend with Kd7h.
Flop Jh4h2d. I bet, he calls.
Turn Qh I bet he calls.
River 7d I check, he bets, I call. He shows Kc6h and I win.

43) I fold 63o in SB.

44) I fold 43o in BB.

45) I raise with Tc7c, he folds.

46) I fold 63o in BB.

47) I complete with 9h4h, he checks.
Flop 4c4d7d. He checks, I check.
Turn Qs. He checks, I bet, he folds.

48) He raises, I reraise with KdKh, he calls.
Flop TcTs6s. I bet, he raises, I call.
Turn Qd. I check, he checks.
River 4h. I check, he bets, I raise, he calls I win. I’m now up $1600.

49) I raise with 4d4s he calls.
Flop Td8s3d, he folds to my bet.

50) He folds his SB.

51) I fold 83o in my SB.

52) I fold 73o in my BB.

53) I fold 93o in my SB.

54) He raises, I reraise with QsTc, he 4 bets, I call.
Flop 8c7c4h. I check and call.
Turn 3h, I check and fold.

55) I raise with 7d5d, he reraises, I four bet. Two can play at this gear changing game.
Flop Ts3c2s. He checks I bet he calls.
Turn 7c he checks I bet he folds.

56) I fold 53o in my BB.

57) I raise Qc6c, he calls.
Flop Ac3c9h. He checks I bet he raises I 3 bet he 4 bets I call.
Turn 7s he bets I call.
River Tc he bets I raise he folds.

58) I fold Ts2s in my BB.

HU match ends here with me up $2446 (I miss the Q6 flush and I’m only up $849, or, 4.25BBs. Fairly close match), 3rd person joins the table.


I think overall I played much more straight forward than I normally do, but I think it was a good thing because this opponent was doing such too and rarely testing me postflop. All individual hand or general thought comments appreciated.

GetThere1Time
10-25-2005, 08:18 PM
I really don't have anything profound to say. I love to read these and I hope they keep coming. It's also a nice change to see some hands you played with an unknown rather than someone who's definitely a 2p2er and/or someone you've played with on numerous occasions. Lookin forward to the next one.

BoxTree
10-25-2005, 08:23 PM
[ QUOTE ]
HU match ends here with me up $2446 (I miss the Q6 flush and I’m only up $849, or, 4.25BBs.

[/ QUOTE ]

What a difference one hand makes.

baronzeus
10-25-2005, 08:33 PM
[ QUOTE ]

10) He raises, I reraise with 7h3c, he calls.
Flop JsTc9c I bet he raises I call.
Turn 4d I check and fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

i hate it. i know you have been playing passively and are trying to mix it up but this is definitely the worst way to do it.


[ QUOTE ]

29) I raise with AhQd, he 3 bets, I 4bet he calls.
Flop 7s6s9c. He checks I check.
Turn 3d. He checks I bet he calls.
River 5h he checks I check and beat his AdTs. I’m playing so passively today.


[/ QUOTE ]
why give him good odds on the flop here? just bet it, he'll call down with a bunch of worse hands.



[ QUOTE ]

30) He limps, I check with 8h5h.
As8sQh flop, I check and call.
Turn 4s I check he checks.
River 7s I bet he folds.


[/ QUOTE ]
do you really think your bet accomplished much here? im not sure if i like a bet since i dont think he's checking an A or a Q on the turn. the only thing you get anything from is folded 8s.

why not just c/r the flop and lead the turn?


[ QUOTE ]

39) I raise with Js6d, he calls.
Flop Ac9c7c. He checks I check.
Turn 5h. He bets, I raise, he calls.
River Kh. He checks, I bet, he folds.


[/ QUOTE ]

another flop check . why? i dont think he folds a pair on the river there unless the K comes.







also, you were guilty of giving two free cards in just 60 hands. this seems like a lot of lost value. after the first one i'd just play things fast OOP since he likes checking behind.

clambunny
10-25-2005, 08:34 PM
schenids thanks for the post. it's worth noting that you started out folding everythign he kept picking up small pots but with your patience it was just 1 hand vs. his agression and you are on top, patience is underrated HU.

29 - i think you should just plow ahead with your hand which is probably good for value and to protect the pot, if he raises just call him down.

30 - unless you check/called with the intention of check/folding becuas eyou feel you are beat i think a flop c/r is in order because he will almost certainly check behind on the turn hands that have overcard outs (after you check/call in this unraised pot).

31 - the way the game is going, don't think he calls down with a mediocre hand or your play induces him to do anything crazy. just call down, or bet if he checks to you.

32 - this isn't just hindsight and monday morning quarterbacking, you have an ace there is an ace out there he probably doesn't have one, looks like a real good chance he's going for a free card play. that turn card makes it even more likely he takes a free turn card, stop and go the turn.

48 - KK hand, why not just 3 bet the flop? he could have ace high and be raising flop for free card quite easily. the turn card makes it quite likely he checks behind with ace high, or maybe even low pocket pair, i think you need more action in there. also, don't like the river check/raise, he'll call a bet with ace high or low pair which he might have, but that queen is a bad card for him and could scare him from betting.

TStoneMBD
10-25-2005, 08:34 PM
10)

i really dont understand the reraise preflop. i also dont understand why you called the flop raise drawing to a sucker straight. if youre worried about metagame id rather let him continue to think youre weak tight by just folding there and play back at him with weak draws later.

21)

i feel like you just gave him your money on this hand. i think if youre relying on your image to make this hand profitable a turn raise is better rather than just folding to a river bet.

30)

i dont see value in a river bet. id much rather check and let him try to fire against your weak image.

42)

id check fold the turn after he calls your flop bet. i dont think you have any folding equity at all. you could be ahead here of course but then a checkcall would make more sense then a bet. since a checkcall looks bad i just like checkfolding

48)

id donk the turn. hes making alot of free showdown plays and i think hes going to take a free card quite a bit of the time



thanks alot for posting this schneids. its a great learning tool. let me know what thoughts i had above are flawed and why.

smurfitup
10-25-2005, 08:35 PM
29) I raise with AhQd, he 3 bets, I 4bet he calls.
Flop 7s6s9c. He checks I check.
Turn 3d. He checks I bet he calls.
River 5h he checks I check and beat his AdTs. I’m playing so passively today.
-----------

why didn't you bet this flop? and what do you do if the river is the 9h and he checks?

KingDan
10-25-2005, 10:30 PM
A few questions about your play.

5)If he bets flop do you cr?
10) Does your future image play a part in the flop call?
29) Were you planning flop cr? What was your plan if CR turn?
42) Do you call if river is a blank?

ALL1N
10-26-2005, 01:12 AM
[ QUOTE ]
32) He raises, I call with Ad6c.
Flop AcJh7d. I c/r him he 3 bets I call. After that last hand I think c/r is def the best play because he’s going to have a hard time letting himself get blown off two pots in a row. I think I’ll let him take the lead this time.
Turn Th. I check, he checks. I suck.
River 3h. I bet he calls I win.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that fastplaying this one will likely cause him to stubborn up and spew, but I think I prefer bet-3bet the flop because it stops free card silliness without declaring your hand (which CR-cap or CR-stopngo do).

cartman
10-26-2005, 10:19 AM
Thanks for posting this, Schneids. It is a tremedous learning experience for many of us.

I have a few questions:

20) Is it because of the quick calls that you put him on the flush draw?

27) I don't understand the aggression here. Maybe I look at these situations incorrectly, but on a board like this where he knows that you are likely to have a piece, I am more inclined to think he is checkraising with something legitimate and is probably not folding at least until the river if even then. Your T hi is behind or tied with any straight draw he could have and any pair has you in deep trouble. It looks to win this pot you will likely have to bet the turn and the river UI. It seems like an expensive investment. What am I missing and/or why is my reasoning incorrect?

30) What was your plan if he kept betting?

32) What was your turn/river plan if he bet the turn?

48) What is the reason for the river check?


Thanks,
Cartman

gonores
10-26-2005, 03:40 PM
[ QUOTE ]
5) I raise with Ac3c, he reraises, I call.
Flop 2d4h9s. He checks, I check.
Turn 4d. He bets, I call. I’m a little suspicious about his action so far but I think I want to see a showdown.
River Tc. He bets, I call, I lose to KK.

[/ QUOTE ]

To me, this is the hand where, even though he may possess some critical fundamentals of HU poker (how often to raise and fold and call preflop, how often to lead, what to call down with, etc), better HU players can tell they have an edge on the opponent. This hand should speak volumes as to how to take advantage Schneider's opponent for the rest of the match.

What has Schneider learned, from just this one hand?

1) His opponent is afraid of winning a small pot with a premium hand...so much so that he will sacrifice winning a huge pot for the sake of winning at least a medium pot.
2) His opponent will play tricky for the sake of being tricky
3) After the effect of this hand has worn off (anywhere from 5-10 hands, depending on how complex the following hands are), a line of bet, bet, bet from him in the BB means, almost exclusively, jack crap....maybe a flopped draw. This is critical and will win Schneids at least one pot sometime in the next 100 hands that he would otherwise not win.

[ QUOTE ]
10) He raises, I reraise with 7h3c, he calls.
Flop JsTc9c I bet he raises I call.
Turn 4d I check and fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't mind at all the reraise preflop, but, like others have said, I'm comfy dumping on this flop...it's gotta be close either way, but he seems to be the type that isn't going to give up multiple bets when you hit.

[ QUOTE ]
20) He raises, I 3bet with ThTs, he calls.
Flop Kh8h4h. I bet he quickly calls.
Turn 9s. I bet he quickly calls.
River Tc. Well, I think he has a heart draw so I check. He checks behind. Damn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think just the opposite. Quick calls usually mean more calls in these spots...it's him trying to tell you he is gonna be stubborn this hand. I think a heart draw sits and coffeehouses for a bit, trying to illicit a check from you on the next street.

[ QUOTE ]
29) I raise with AhQd, he 3 bets, I 4bet he calls.
Flop 7s6s9c. He checks I check.
Turn 3d. He checks I bet he calls.
River 5h he checks I check and beat his AdTs. I’m playing so passively today.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm surprised you got any bets whatsoever out of him after you flipped your hand over on the flop.

[ QUOTE ]
30) He limps, I check with 8h5h.
As8sQh flop, I check and call.
Turn 4s I check he checks.
River 7s I bet he folds.

[/ QUOTE ]

Induce, plz

Schneids
10-26-2005, 05:29 PM
A general reply regarding the two most discussed hands...

[ QUOTE ]
10) He raises, I reraise with 7h3c, he calls.
Flop JsTc9c I bet he raises I call.
Turn 4d I check and fold.


[/ QUOTE ]

I am a firm believer that in HU play, you need to find a way to turn some -EV situations into +EV situations. Given how tightly I was playing in the match, and perhaps folding in some slightly +EV call down spots, I needed to turn a losing hand into a winning hand. Sort of akin to Renaud's shania and how if you only raised AA and 72o UTG against observant opponents, the 72o would now become a hand that won you money. I thought the match was at a point where pretty much if I 3 bet out of the BB preflop, he would fold on any flop where he did not flop a pair or a decent draw. So, I gambled. If he flops a pair approx 35% of a time and then a decent draw occasionally and then folds the others, I'm still +EV because of the dead money in the pot already. Plus, I might occasionally suck out, and plus, if I get to showdown the hand that I 3 bet it might tilt him or loosen him up a little (both things I wouldn't mind). So, with these considerations I 3 bet. Right or wrongly, we can discuss.

[ QUOTE ]
39) I raise with Js6d, he calls.
Flop Ac9c7c. He checks I check.
Turn 5h. He bets, I raise, he calls.
River Kh. He checks, I bet, he folds.


[/ QUOTE ]

Firstly, I want to point out that I did not know this match was going to be ending in less than 20 hands after this. I was definitely going to be playing a strong hand this way soon. But as it was, I felt like if I bet he is going to check and call with any pair ot club draw and I'm going to have no idea whether to bet a turn or not because there are not many turn cards that are going to change anything and if I check the turn I have little showdown value. So then, when he bet the turn, I decided to gamble that he was betting a lone club. I considered that to be quite likely given this guy's overall propensity to play made hands quite passively. Plus I had a pipedream of seeing him maybe fold on the spot, while at the same time, I don't know if everyone is noticing I did pick up a gutshot on the turn, so if I'm going to get called, I probably have a few more ways to river a winner. I don't hate this hand, even after the fact, as much as everyone else seems to.


Also relating indirectly to this hand and the concept of checking behind rather than continuation bets, last night I played an opponent HU who folded maybe 2 times to a continuation bet on the flop out of at least 300 hands. So, I was checking behind a lot on the flop if I had nothing, but the board was such that his actions would likely be honest on the turn (ie dry boards), and very very occasionally checking behind with top pair on a dry board. This helped tremendously in making him easy to beat, since even though you may think it sounds like this guy would be easily beatable just by bet bet betting, it really isn't the case when he is check/calling or check/raising every single flop.

I'll get back to the other responses later tonight or this afternoon, but for now I can't since I have to get back to classwork.

bottomset
10-27-2005, 12:28 AM
don't have much to add

but thanks for writing this up, and I would love to see more of them

theBruiser500
10-27-2005, 12:10 PM
schneids in NL people will make this play (the 73o reraise preflop), and with timing and game texture someone could be pretty sure that it's ev+ play. in LHE you have less options postflop and you need to be even surer of what's going on, it seems like this reraise bluff wit 73o is very marginal. maybe it's ev+, but by 3 betting it now you start tarnishing your image and you LOSE your chance to do this next hand. i say, wait until next hand, turn a losing hand into a winning hand, but make sure that losing hand is better than 73o. you bypass this situation with 73 which might be ev+ but you can make the same play soon for even great ev+.