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View Full Version : Against a maniac is this standard. Blind defence.

Stealthy
10-25-2005, 02:16 PM
New to SH play and just finding my feet really. I already have a preference for sitting next to maniacs though! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Anyway this one has stats of 71/36/3.7 over 100 hands. He always bets if checked to but will give it up if played back at if he has nothing. I was the only one playing back though as the rest of the table were weak passive types. His simple strategy of simply always betting was very effective.

I had played back at him quite a few times already but was typically raising the flop rather than the turn. I decided to do for the extra BB here.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (4 SB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (3 BB) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>,

Against any other player I am not defending with such a crappy hand but I felt I had a big edge on him post-flop as he was like the school bully who runs away when someone stands up to him.

Was it OK to wait for the turn here or should I pop him on the flop always due to my vulnerability. Like I said it was mainly for variety, I was not trying to represent an Ace and was raising with whatever fell.
jba
10-25-2005, 02:19 PM
i don't like exposing ourselves to a 3bet on the turn like this. With such a weak hand it is way too tempting to muck it, but I really want to get to showdown against this guy.

I think i'm popping the flop. if villain steals the initiative back I go into call down mode.
Stealthy
10-25-2005, 02:22 PM
I should have added on this one that he only plays back with a hand so I can safely fold to a 3 bet here.
jba
10-25-2005, 02:31 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I should have added on this one that he only plays back with a hand so I can safely fold to a 3 bet here.

[/ QUOTE ]

in that case I like it.
spydog
10-25-2005, 02:55 PM
Bad.

You have a decent hand against an aggressive player. Your goal should be to get 1 bet in the pot on every street with this hand on this board. Based on the description of your opponent, he will voluntarily put that bet in the pot. Let him. If he checks, then bet. If you improve, then raise. Raising the turn let's him fold a worse hand or 3-bet a better hand. Neither of those scenarios is good for you.
Stealthy
10-25-2005, 03:07 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Bad.

You have a decent hand against an aggressive player. Your goal should be to get 1 bet in the pot on every street with this hand on this board. Based on the description of your opponent, he will voluntarily put that bet in the pot. Let him. If he checks, then bet. If you improve, then raise. Raising the turn let's him fold a worse hand or 3-bet a better hand. Neither of those scenarios is good for you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Put that simply it makes a lot of sense. But given that I will check behind the river if he calls and checks to me is it not better to protect my hand here? If he has outs against me is it not better to charge him the maximum to catch them rather than tamely letting him hit one on the river. I know that I potentilly miss out on an extra BB this way if I am calling him down and I put the same amount in as I do with the raise whilst giving him an extra shot at outdrawing me? A flop raise may be better but I am not yet convinced that with just a pair of 9s I should not me raising to protect at some point! If I just call down and he outdraws me wont I feel I right idiot for playing it so passive?

Should I just be calling down weak made hands against an aggressive then?

Damn this shorthanded play is confusing!
imitation
10-25-2005, 03:11 PM
Raise the flop, fold to a turn CR
spydog
10-25-2005, 03:15 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Raise the flop, fold to a turn CR

[/ QUOTE ]

You should never put yourself in a position to fold against a maniac HU when you hold a pair.

Your line puts in 2BBs and allows us to get bluffed off a better hand or one that might improve to the best hand. Calling the entire way costs only .5BBs more and we always get to show it down.

Edit: Are you drinking again?
krimson
10-25-2005, 03:23 PM
This board isn't that great to start pushing back. I would just call the hand down and bet if checked to.
MarkD
10-25-2005, 03:24 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Bad.

You have a decent hand against an aggressive player. Your goal should be to get 1 bet in the pot on every street with this hand on this board. Based on the description of your opponent, he will voluntarily put that bet in the pot. Let him. If he checks, then bet. If you improve, then raise. Raising the turn let's him fold a worse hand or 3-bet a better hand. Neither of those scenarios is good for you.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is exactly right. One bet on every street. Show it down. It's simple poker.

BTW... I think you can fold pre-flop.
zephed
10-25-2005, 04:08 PM
So you don't like raising the flop?

Does it make turn play too tricky?
Stealthy
10-25-2005, 04:25 PM
A specific read that I put in my 2nd post is that I am ALWAYS behind if he 3 bets me. I know enough that against a true maniac who will 3 bet with nothing I cannot raise but given that I cannot make a bad fold here if he 3 bets can raising not be correct?

I am trying to learn but there do seem to be some specifics to this hand that may make a raise better for protecting but worse for missing the extra BB if he does not catch.

I can understand fully calling down if I knew that he had virtually no outs which may have been the case. But is a passive line best MOST of the time if he will always bet? I guess as the board is fairly drawless I could call it down here. Still confused.