(55) AQs Hand...

[ace_in_the_hole]

You guys folding on the flop? I felt like I should call to hopefulyl get a free river. The flush draw is what makes my play a harder choice.

NL Texas Hold'em $50 Buy-in + $5 Entry Fee Trny:16867891 Level:2 Blinds(15/30) - Tuesday, October 25, 14:09:49 EDT 2005
Table Table 66802 (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 8
Seat 1: TRAP1111 ( $3025 )
Seat 2: pnk52 ( $920 )
Seat 6: Mastr ( $875 )
Seat 10: HERO ( $895 )
Seat 3: KingZupp ( $967 )
Seat 7: jggt21 ( $1380 )
Seat 9: Fernanda333 ( $895 )
Seat 5: maddcarnage ( $1043 )
Trny:16867891 Level:2
Blinds(15/30)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to HERO [ Ac Qc ]
maddcarnage folds.
Mastr folds.
jggt21 folds.
Fernanda333 folds.
HERO raises [95].
TRAP1111 folds.
pnk52 calls [80].
KingZupp folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 9c, 3c, 4s ]
pnk52 bets [150].
HERO ???

[durron597]

Follow the cow.

http://www.bockhouse.com/images/pushit.jpg

[wuwei]

[ QUOTE ]
I felt like I should call to hopefulyl get a free river.

[/ QUOTE ]

You really think just calling will get you a free card on the turn?

[inyaface]

I think folding is the worst option followed by calling.

[ace_in_the_hole]

Interesting, at first I thought this might be a gross overplay of AQ but upon further review of the hand i guess villain would probably not bet out with a good hand.
Thanks durron.

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
You guys folding on the flop? I felt like I should call to hopefulyl get a free river. The flush draw is what makes my play a harder choice.

NL Texas Hold'em $50 Buy-in + $5 Entry Fee Trny:16867891 Level:2 Blinds(15/30) - Tuesday, October 25, 14:09:49 EDT 2005
Table Table 66802 (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 8
Seat 1: TRAP1111 ( $3025 )
Seat 2: pnk52 ( $920 )
Seat 6: Mastr ( $875 )
Seat 10: HERO ( $895 )
Seat 3: KingZupp ( $967 )
Seat 7: jggt21 ( $1380 )
Seat 9: Fernanda333 ( $895 )
Seat 5: maddcarnage ( $1043 )
Trny:16867891 Level:2
Blinds(15/30)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to HERO [ Ac Qc ]
maddcarnage folds.
Mastr folds.
jggt21 folds.
Fernanda333 folds.
HERO raises [95].
TRAP1111 folds.
pnk52 calls [80].
KingZupp folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 9c, 3c, 4s ]
pnk52 bets [150].
HERO ???

[/ QUOTE ]

This is an easy push...I bet your 15 outs might all be good too(medium PP for villain?), but lets say 13-14 to be conervative, sprinkle on some FE, a pinch of pot odds and mmmm, you have a delicious +EV soup.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
Interesting, at first I thought this might be a gross overplay of AQ but upon further review of the hand i guess villain would probably not bet out with a good hand.
Thanks durron.

[/ QUOTE ]

In all seriousness, you have 2 overs and a flush draw. Meaning most of the time you have 14-15 outs. Why not get allin on this flop when you have FE?

[ace_in_the_hole]

Well I guess I just found a big leak in my game. Just to be clear though, if I had no flush draw this is an easy fold, right? Thanks guys.

[downtown]

[ QUOTE ]
Interesting, at first I thought this might be a gross overplay of AQ but upon further review of the hand i guess villain would probably not bet out with a good hand.
Thanks durron.

[/ QUOTE ]

The thing is, even if Villain has a good hand you are possibly still ahead. It's a really easy push here.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
Well I guess I just found a big leak in my game. Just to be clear though, if I had no flush draw this is an easy fold, right? Thanks guys.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you had no flush draw you would have 6 outs at most. A little different, no?

[inyaface]

[ QUOTE ]
Well I guess I just found a big leak in my game. Just to be clear though, if I had no flush draw this is an easy fold, right? Thanks guys.

[/ QUOTE ]
The easy play is fold however theres often times when pushing in this instance CAN be ok. It is very read dependant and not "necissary"

[zambonidrivr]

Nothing like getting all in on a draw. Level 2? Really? Perhaps a leak in my game as well.

JK

[bones]

[ QUOTE ]
Nothing like getting all in on a draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

Quit listening to Norman Chad.

[tigerite]

[ QUOTE ]
Follow the cow.

http://www.bockhouse.com/images/pushit.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

Damn, agreeing with the donk durron, but he's right /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[downtown]

[ QUOTE ]
Nothing like getting all in on a draw. Level 2? Really? Perhaps a leak in my game as well.

JK

[/ QUOTE ]

I hope JK means just kidding.

You're only behind a set or QQ+ (and then just barely, unless it's AA). "Draw" or not, I like to get my money in when I'm ahead.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]

Damn, agreeing with the donk durron, but he's right /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

What would be the point of posting hands that I play well /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
Nothing like getting all in on a draw. Level 2? Really? Perhaps a leak in my game as well.

JK

[/ QUOTE ]

This is just like yesterday! You guys are overvaluing your other edges too much. This push is very +EV. Keep in mind that not only is hero a favorite on the flop here, but even in cases when villain out kicks hero and his Q is no/less good, villain will fold.

The FE, plus the chips in the middle make this play a must IMO. I would need another monitor for my slider so it doesnt go off the screen.

[zambonidrivr]

alright, so you pick up around $350 in chips (best case scenario provided he folds). is that incrementally better than saving $850? I agree with this push at a later point, it just seems early to accept a close gamble. i would rather push trash around the bubble than pick up 350 here. perhaps this is a leak in my game. very likely.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
alright, so you pick up around $350 in chips (best case scenario provided he folds). is that incrementally better than losing $850 half the time and winning $1200 the other half? I agree with this push at a later point, it just seems early to accept a close gamble. i would rather push trash around the bubble than pick up 350 here. perhaps this is a leak in my game. very likely.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pushing here is probably about +200 CEV, gut instinct. There are no weird circumstances that would make risking your stack for that much CEV wrong.

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
alright, so you pick up around $350 in chips (best case scenario provided he folds). is that incrementally better than saving $850? I agree with this push at a later point, it just seems early to accept a close gamble. i would rather push trash around the bubble than pick up 350 here. perhaps this is a leak in my game. very likely.

[/ QUOTE ]

This isnt a close gamble...thats what you are missing. Any one SNG is a "gamble" in a sense, but over time, if you play better than others, then it is not. This is one type of play in which playing better is an example.

If you are called, lets say hero is about a 55%, not a huge edge, I agree...but villain will be folding here roughly 30% of the time (maybe more), plus there is money in the middle already so when you are called there is a slight overlay to pad your already existing edge.

Overall this push is almost as good as dominating an A...which no one here, regardless of their "late game" prowess can pass up.

[zambonidrivr]

what is CEV? Sorry.
Also, do you push this in a large MTT?
I'm just trying to understand how putting everything at risk during level 2 is +ev when you have considerable FE left.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
what is CEV? Sorry.

[/ QUOTE ]

CEV = Chip Expected Value (as opposed to $EV, dollar expected value)

[ QUOTE ]

Also, do you push this in a large MTT?


[/ QUOTE ]

Even faster than I do in a SnG

[ QUOTE ]

I'm just trying to understand how putting everything at risk during level 2 is +ev when you have considerable FE left.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is an argument for pushing...

[zambonidrivr]

why is that an arguement for pushing? are you putting villian on a continuation bet here with not much of a hand? i can see more of your point. thanks for talking me through.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
why is that an arguement for pushing? are you putting villian on a continuation bet here with not much of a hand? i can see more of your point. thanks for talking me through.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have considerable FE left. So why not use it to try to win a nice pot when even if you are called you still have a good hand?

Plus after you hit the blinds a few times in levels 3 and 4 your FE will dwindle greatly...

[zambonidrivr]

Does your line change with multiple 3+ yet to act? What if you are first to act? Check with the intention of pushing to any action? What about in deep stack play? Consider pot odds to make the call, or just shove it all in always?

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
Does your line change with multiple 3+ yet to act? What if you are first to act? Check with the intention of pushing to any action?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes

[ QUOTE ]
What about in deep stack play? Consider pot odds to make the call, or just shove it all in always?

[/ QUOTE ]

Bet-3bet

[splashpot]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm just trying to understand how putting everything at risk during level 2 is +ev when you have considerable FE left.

[/ QUOTE ]
The fact that it's level 2 makes no difference. It just means you aren't desperate yet. What does make a difference is the size of the pot and the odds you are getting. That plus fold equity says push.

[pooh74]

Also, do you push this in a large MTT?

Sorry to rehash this, but I think this is worth pointing out again...(Durron did below I think).

You really want to push your edges such as this in an MTT even more so...If you consider your self equally better than the field in both SNG and MTT:

iow,

your are 1.4x better in the SNG and 1.4 times better in the MTT, then logically, you want to push your "smaller" edges even more where the field is larger.

Of course, there is no way of knowing what the "field" is actually like compared to you in either format...I consider myself worse so I REALLY want to push my small edges early on in am MTT...hourly rate considerations aside.

[Nick M]

it's only a draw if he calls...and by the way as long as he doesn't have an Ace and a pair, you are the favorite here.

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
it's only a draw if he calls...and by the way as long as he doesn't have an Ace and a pair, you are the favorite here.

[/ QUOTE ]

exactly...if he showed me TT and promised to call...I'd still push in an MTT (IOW, no FE).

[Nick M]

ty and Pooh next time I have Kings and you have AJ and you flop a jack, I'll try and make it more obvious before I bust you hahaha /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
ty and Pooh next time I have Kings and you have AJ and you flop a jack, I'll try and make it more obvious before I bust you hahaha /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

lol...Thats happened 3 times in the last 3 weeks so Im not sure which was you...

/images/graemlins/wink.gif

(BTW, at the 27s its still borderline +EV because of how many times I am ahead there. what's your SN again?)

ps...thx for calling me out on the forum!! j/k

[Nick M]

i'll PM you the hand

[Pudge714]

Push = Good
Call= Okay/ Bad
Fold = Unfathomably terrible

[kyro]

[ QUOTE ]
Interesting, at first I thought this might be a gross overplay of AQ but upon further review of the hand i guess villain would probably not bet out with a good hand.
Thanks durron.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think durron expects villain to fold THAT often.

You have the nut flush draw and overcards. Easy push.