Floor decision

[Vehn]

Game is 7 handed. Cards are dealt, first two players fold, I raise next to act, CO posted both blinds and calls, the button looks down and sees 3 cards in front of him. The floor is called and after some debate the button's hand is ruled dead. Right/wrong?

p.s. I wound up flopping quad kings with KJ and got paid /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

[Dynasty]

The decision is correct. I've seen this situation before at the Mirage.

[muck_nutz]

In most of the card room I've been in that would have been the decision. The interesting point being when action occurred (so if it was discovered before the UTG folded something else might have been done). I have a hazy memory of a decision being made in a similar situation where the floorman picked one of the three cards at random, turned the card face up for the whole table to see, and then allowed the player to continue with the two remaining cards.

[Vehn]

Interestingly enough after the floorman left, he came back 5 minutes later after talking to his supervisor, said his decision was wrong (but I didn't catch the correct decision) and gave the guy a comp.

[Hotchile]

I personally don't like the decision and would side with a misdeal. I don't believe that the posters chips should be burned and I don't like a post refund because that is going to change the position of post on the next hand. I have ruled a number of times that a post must receive a legal starting hand and never got an argument. (this is, of course, providing that the post doesn't attempt to act on the hand)

HC

[bernie]

i dont think it's a correct decision. here's why...

what if the player was in the BB? he now has to sacrifice a possible free play because the dealer screwed up? that doesnt seem right.

ive seen it where they redeal the hand, pushing everyones action(if any) back to them.

i think this was a bad ruling

b

[bernie]

that actually says alot about the cardroom. i think the decision to admit they did a wrong ruling and compensated the guy for it is lacking in many rooms.

i think this was a great recovery for the floorman.

b

[Tyler Durden]

I think if the guy was the BB it would have been ruled a misdeal.

[JTG51]

I can't say I know the rule, but intuitively this sounds like the wrong decision to me. First, I don't see how the hand can be played after a misdeal. Second, at least at Foxwoods, the fact that everyone is entitled to a hand seems to take priority in most situations. I'd thnk they have to redeal so that the button can get a hand.

[bernie]

and that rule should apply whether you have money posted or not. it shouldnt make a difference. again, a player shouldnt be penalized for something beyond his control in this case. he has done nothing wrong so why should he have to give up a hand? he shouldnt.

it's a misdeal

b

[Dynasty]

The reason the hand is played out is because there has been action, a raise, on the hand.

At the Mirage, if it was the Cutoff (the poster) who had his 3 card hand declared dead, he would receive his chips back from the house.

[CrackerZack]

This was the correct decision because they hand had begun play before he noticed. If the button, as soon as the deal was complete, said, woah woah woah...i have 3 cards, it should be a misdeal. But, since he didn't protect his hand and didn't notice/mention anything until his turn, his hand is dead, and the game goes on.

On a side note, the poster being declared dead and being refunded his chips by the house is something I would never have thought of. Seems to make sense but I would think they would just usually call it a misdeal.

[JTG51]

The reason the hand is played out is because there has been action, a raise, on the hand.

Good point, for some reason I overlooked that.

It must be nice to play in a place where the floor people know the rules and enforce them consistently.

[RockLobster]

Well I saw something very similar during my last Foxwoods trip. I was in the SB, and a pretty cool guy was in the BB. The BB was dealt only one card, and didn't realize it until the action got to him (he was paying the waitress for his lunch). There had been a raise, and after much discussion the floor ruled his hand dead. Period.

The floorman said it was because each person is responsible for their hand, and there was too much action to undo (not those exact words).

So he lost his BB.

[Vehn]

Well my problem with the whole "protect your hand" logic is that the button will almost always have action in front of him from the early players before receiving his cards. Most of the time (at least in mid limit games) UTG will look at his cards immediately and quickly make a decision as preflop play UTG is pretty simple for most people. Sometimes when bored (and I should probably stop doing this) I will look at my first card and just deflect my 2nd card back to the dealer if the first stinks. So usually its impossible for the button to confirm the legality of his hand before there's action.

The guy was a prick anyways.

/forums/images/icons/wink.gif

[Emperor]

If I had been in the BB with only one card and action to me I would have RAISED without drawing attention to my hand! I have done this in home games and it immediately tarnishes my "rock" image. I slide my card underneath 3 or 4 chips and bet/fold the flop depending if I can make a hand or not.

Thne tell the dealer "next time 2 cards would be nice."

You'll get more action than you ever expected the rest of the night /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

[Your Mom]

If I had been in the BB with only one card and action to me I would have RAISED without drawing attention to my hand! I have done this in home games and it immediately tarnishes my "rock" image. I slide my card underneath 3 or 4 chips and bet/fold the flop depending if I can make a hand or not.

Thne tell the dealer "next time 2 cards would be nice."


I am waiting to try this.

What if the player is the type that does not pick up or look at his cards until it is his time to act?