Personality Type and Poker?

[BlackRain]

Was just reading an article where the author argues that an introverted personality type, and more specifically INTP(Introverted Intuitive Thinking Perceiving) and INTJ(Introverted Intuitive Thinking Judging), are directly correlated with winning poker. This is the case he claims, because the introvert personality is more apt at self reflection, self examination and concentrating on the actions and words of other people for long periods of time. He argues that the INTJ is probably best disposed of the 16 personality types because "this type is motivated by the practical application of knowledge."


He goes on to argue...

"Perhaps 70, 75 or even 80% of all poker champions are of these two types[INTP and INTJ]. If this was an verified scientific fact, what might that mean for poker worldwide? Perhaps a correct but inverse conclusion could be correctly drawn. Perhaps some specific Myers-Briggs personality types are more apt to perform poorly at poker, in the same way a narrow subset of personality types is apt to do very well."

The article is listed here

http://www.pokerfyi.com/articles/4/20.aspx

and the Myers-Briggs personality test is listed here

http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes2.asp

Thoughts/Comments?

[Mr. Curious]

There have been many threads about this already, please try using the search function.

[ChicagoTroy]

I fall between these two types, leaning towards INTP. The fact that they make up a very small percentage of the population leads me to think there must be other types that play winning or championship poker.

JMO

[Dan Mezick]

I wrote that essay. Later I posted a poll here on the 16 MBTI personality types. The over-represented types at 2+2 were INTP and INTJ by a wide margin.

The original post had quite a following. It seems it may have scrolled off the archives. (archiveserver.twoplustwo.com)

Anyone who may decide to try to locate it in the archives and post the link here, is appreciated. I believe the title was "Poker and Personality" and you can try searching "INTP" "INTJ" etc. These searches (in the Psych forum) may dredge it up from the archives. I posted that in 10/2004 and the archive server appears to go back only six months.

These essays and others are at http://www.pokerfyi.com/articles/4.aspx

FYI I did get quite a few interesting emails from some very well-known (champ) players who admitted to being introverted. Several were quite proud of that fact.

There is little doubt that introverts rule.

Atlantic Monthly published an excellent essay on introverts:


Caring for Your Introvert (http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200303/rauch)

[ QUOTE ]
Extroverts have little or no grasp of introversion. They assume that company, especially their own, is always welcome. They cannot imagine why someone would need to be alone; indeed, they often take umbrage at the suggestion. As often as I have tried to explain the matter to extroverts, I have never sensed that any of them really understood. They listen for a moment and then go back to barking and yipping.

[/ QUOTE ]

[SNOWBALL138]

All of this myers-briggs stuff is about as reliable as zodiac signs. Its bizarre to me that there are actually people in the business community who take this seriously.

studies show that less than half of people who take the test will be placed into the same type when they retake it a week later. Results also vary according to the time of day. This shouldn't surprise anyone though, because the test was designed almost sixty years ago by a dilletante Jungian homemaker. Thats right! She wasn't even a psychologist or anything.

[SNOWBALL138]

I came out as INTP just now, which is consistent with your idea of who winning players are, but I still think the questions are poorly worded, and that the whole endeavor to place people into categories is neither scientific, nor socially desirable.

[mattw]

i just took the test. i came out INTJ. i think im more perceiving than judging. in fact, i try very hard to not be judgemental.

[ QUOTE ]
i just took the test. i came out INTJ. i think im more perceiving than judging. in fact, i try very hard to not be judgemental.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you are misinterpreting what the category of Perceiving Vs Judging stands for


Anyways, for what its worth, Im constistantly tested as ENTJ. This might be strange, but it might not be. I enjoy the company of others a lot, yet I still frequently reflect inwardly.

[Dan Mezick]

Know thyself.

[silvershade]

I'd have thought that INFP and INFJ would also be good, particularly the INFJs as these are the guys who are reputed to be able to read other people accurately and instinctively which ought to be a big advantage ( at least in live play ).

I think you have to be very careful with saying that the INTJ/INTP types are the better poker players.
Even if more than 80% of all poker champions were INTJ, this wouldn't necessarily mean that this type is the better player. Often people misinterpret statistics like these. They think if so many succesful players are INTJ then this type must have an advantage in playing poker.
In my oppinion the explanation of these numbers is a very simple one:

INTF and INTP just love playing games like poker much more than the other types.

They are not the better players, but they enjoy playing poker more than the others and therefore begin to really study it.
I'm pretty sure about that, because i've seen things like this in other parts of live, like sports for example.
I'm very much involved in cycling and i know that almost all of the professional cyclists are of the introverted types. Does this mean that these types have better physical requirements when it comes to endurance?
I don't think so. They just have more fun cycling hour after hour along lone roads without having to deal with anything but semselves... just like myself. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[Paxosmotic]

[ QUOTE ]
All of this myers-briggs stuff is about as reliable as zodiac signs. Its bizarre to me that there are actually people in the business community who take this seriously.

studies show that less than half of people who take the test will be placed into the same type when they retake it a week later. Results also vary according to the time of day. This shouldn't surprise anyone though, because the test was designed almost sixty years ago by a dilletante Jungian homemaker. Thats right! She wasn't even a psychologist or anything.

[/ QUOTE ]
As a psychology degree guy, I think this comment is absurd. Myers-Briggs is the only accurate test I've ever seen. I absolutely love it.

[Mr. Curious]

[ QUOTE ]
Extroverts have little or no grasp of introversion. They assume that company, especially their own, is always welcome. They cannot imagine why someone would need to be alone; indeed, they often take umbrage at the suggestion. As often as I have tried to explain the matter to extroverts, I have never sensed that any of them really understood. They listen for a moment and then go back to barking and yipping.

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting generalization and stereo typing; it shows a lack of understanding how the Meyers-Briggs test is meant to work. The test only shows your personality tendencies at this point in time.

All people have some tendencies of all personality types.

They just favor one side or the other at any given time. That's what I enjoy most about the test: you can swing from one personality type to another over time.

You may be a introvert today, but that may change to extrovert in a year and back to introvert a year after that. Same with thinking/feeling, intuitive/sensory, and perceiving/judging.

This test can help you know and understand yourself better by identifying who you are today, but does nothing more. Being currently identified as an INTP or INTJ does not gaurantee you poker success, only you can do that.

btw - I am an ENFJ, though that really does not mean much because my N & F scores were only 2 questions higher than my S & T scores; and although I grew up an introvert, I have shifted strongly to the extrovert side. Does being an ENFJ mean I suck at poker? No, but it might explain why I enjoy the social interaction of playing live more than I enjoy playing online.

[jonnyd]

i agree i enjoy live games more than online
i play online when im bored.. or to procrastinate

but i dont play online instead of doing other things..

im a ENFP lol

[ QUOTE ]
As a psychology degree guy, I think this comment is absurd. Myers-Briggs is the only accurate test I've ever seen. I absolutely love it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I did the test and came up as an INFP - and it is pretty much bang-on. My wife also did it - she is an ESTJ - which was also on the money.

[AA suited]

"INTP(Introverted Intuitive Thinking Perceiving) and INTJ(Introverted Intuitive Thinking Judging), are directly correlated with winning poker."

interesting.. i'm an ISTP.

S (Sensing) vs N (intuative):
What do you see when you look at a telephone on a desk?

S - I see 9 buttons, a handset, it's black in color, etc

N - I see friends

Correct?! /images/graemlins/confused.gif

And P's are good multitaskers?! That's new to me. Link?

[pipes]

[ QUOTE ]
There have been many threads about this already, please try using the search function.

[/ QUOTE ]

My what a dic you come off as here.

OP is not asking a question. He took the time to post something that he felt others would find interesting.

[deacsoft]

[ QUOTE ]
As a psychology degree guy, I think this comment is absurd. Myers-Briggs is the only accurate test I've ever seen. I absolutely love it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I also went to college for psychology and found the Meyers-Briggs testing to be truely amazing.

[Mr. Curious]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There have been many threads about this already, please try using the search function.

[/ QUOTE ]

My what a dic you come off as here.

OP is not asking a question. He took the time to post something that he felt others would find interesting.

[/ QUOTE ]

Strange, MikeBandy found one of the old threads: Dan's initial M&B post (http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=0&Number=733891&an=&page=0&vc =1 )

[Dan Mezick]

Here's an interesting profile of the INTP type, probably the most winning online-poker type.

http://www.geocities.com/lifexplore/intp.htm
INTPs exhibit the greatest precision in thought and language of all the types; they tend to see distinctions and inconsistencies in thought and language instantaneously. The one word which captures the unique style of INTPs is architect-the architect of ideas and systems as well as the architect of edifices. This type is found in only 1 percent of the population and therefore is not encountered as frequently as some of the other types.

INTPs detect contradictions in statements no matter how distant in space or time the contradictory statements were produced. The intellectual scanning of INTPs has a principled quality; that is, INTPs search for whatever is relevant and pertinent to the issue at hand. Consequently, INTPs can concentrate better than any other type.

[AZnuts]

[ QUOTE ]
Extroverts have little or no grasp of introversion. They assume that company, especially their own, is always welcome. They cannot imagine why someone would need to be alone; indeed, they often take umbrage at the suggestion. As often as I have tried to explain the matter to extroverts, I have never sensed that any of them really understood. They listen for a moment and then go back to barking and yipping.

[/ QUOTE ]

Completely & undeniabley accurate.

I am INTJ, my wife INTP. We both understand where extroverts are coming from, and often accommodate their sometimes whiny and child-like requirements for companionship and approval.

On the otherhand, the same extroverts have no clue as to why we introverts might dislike when they convert the small gathering of close friends at our house into a free-for-all by inviting their neighbors, landscapers, and second cousins.

[McGahee]

Heh, I noticed this as well.
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=0&Number=3829776&page=

[McGahee]

[ QUOTE ]
All of this myers-briggs stuff is about as reliable as zodiac signs. Its bizarre to me that there are actually people in the business community who take this seriously.

studies show that less than half of people who take the test will be placed into the same type when they retake it a week later. Results also vary according to the time of day. This shouldn't surprise anyone though, because the test was designed almost sixty years ago by a dilletante Jungian homemaker. Thats right! She wasn't even a psychologist or anything.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? I think most people could tell what they are just be reading the descriptions. I graded out as an ISTP and I sort of already knew I was IST. I thought it was close between judger/perceiver, but when I heard somebody say the inside of perceiver's cars are always messy, I knew the results were correct.