When China Rules the World

[imitation]

I'm going to be [censored] happy.

WHAT ABOUT YOU?????

ps I hope the re introduce golden passports.

Politics forum?

[tbach24]

RUH ROH

[Shajen]

http://www.movie-winners.com/posters/pix/runforest.jpg

Nee how mah?

[canis582]

....The action at the taj will be even better.

[Indiana]

Too many poor uneducated people over there, backwards govt...It won't happen. All the smart chinese are over here growing our country.

Indy

[miajag81]

[ QUOTE ]
Too many poor uneducated people over there, backwards govt...It won't happen. All the smart chinese are over here growing our country.

Indy

[/ QUOTE ]

Also, their navy sucks.

if they could cut down the delivery time for my Seseme chicken Im sold.

[KaneKungFu123]

[ QUOTE ]
Too many poor uneducated people over there, backwards govt...It won't happen. All the smart chinese are over here growing our country.

Indy

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do you feel the government is backwards? its not a brilliant democracy or anything, but the government seems to be doing a good job with the economy etc.

[KaneKungFu123]

did you buy that condo then?

[IndieMatty]

http://www.coronach.ca/school/stupages/nine18/chyna.gif

[TheTROLL]

[ QUOTE ]
It won't happen. All the smart chinese are over here growing our country.

Indy

[/ QUOTE ]

Repeat until true.

[pokerdirty]

[ QUOTE ]
http://www.coronach.ca/school/stupages/nine18/chyna.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

i was just thinking this! gross though...

[Aloysius]

[ QUOTE ]
Too many poor uneducated people over there, backwards govt...It won't happen. All the smart chinese are over here growing our country.

Indy

[/ QUOTE ]

Backwards government? All the smart Chinese are growing the U.S.?

You, sir, need to pick up an Economist / Finanical Times / really any periodical even one as lame as Time or Newsweek to get a better sense of where China is in terms of its economy, government (this is not the communist China of yesteryear, not even close), and global initiatives as it begins positionining itself as the next (perhaps only) superpower.

It's still years off is my sense, but the incredible progress on the mainland - and as per capita income grows throughout the country - game over man.

[mostsmooth]

[ QUOTE ]
Nee how mah?

[/ QUOTE ]
hen hao

[mostsmooth]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm going to be [censored] happy.

WHAT ABOUT YOU?????

ps I hope the re introduce golden passports.

[/ QUOTE ]
think of all the hot chinese chicks looking for some white meat /images/graemlins/grin.gif

I thought their idea on how to solve their growing fuel/petrochemical needs was extremely clever. Oh, well, there's always another one they can offer that US trade deficit money to.

[Arnfinn Madsen]

Since this thread is doomed to turn into politics anyway:

http://seas.stanford.edu/diso/images/china.jpg

As if nobody saw that coming

[Boris]

I don't know why you're so gung-ho about China when they don't even allow Texas Hold'em.

[tek]

Asians have little weewees, so it's not like we'd have to worry about them saying "where the white womens at"...

[Dynasty]

[ QUOTE ]
http://www.coronach.ca/school/stupages/nine18/chyna.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I know somebody who could give her a fight.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v720/DynastyPoker/4.jpg

Man, where did they find those three tiny women?

[pokerdirty]

dynasty, i'm so confused by this picture you have no idea.

[Wes ManTooth]

http://www.mc.maricopa.edu/~ladelia/images/Hell%20freezing%20over.jpg

[Colonel Kataffy]

[ QUOTE ]
backwards govt...

[/ QUOTE ]

Since Mao died, the government has been nothing if not competent. Certainly more so than the administration currently running this country.

[bobman0330]

[ QUOTE ]
Backwards government? All the smart Chinese are growing the U.S.?

You, sir, need to pick up an Economist / Finanical Times / really any periodical even one as lame as Time or Newsweek to get a better sense of where China is in terms of its economy, government (this is not the communist China of yesteryear, not even close), and global initiatives as it begins positionining itself as the next (perhaps only) superpower.

It's still years off is my sense, but the incredible progress on the mainland - and as per capita income grows throughout the country - game over man.


[/ QUOTE ]

So, after 20 years they stopped actively trying to destroy their economy, and now they're no longer backwards from an economic point of view? Heavy state involvement in banks and financial institutions, bribery, corruption, intimidation of foreign investors, no political or human rights, no IP protection, fiddling with currency values, massive income and opportunity inequality between the coast and inland, no domestic consumption to drive growth...

Yeah, sounds great. I feel perfectly confident projecting the growth of the last few years indefinitely into the future. Just like S. Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, and Japan.

[Colonel Kataffy]

[ QUOTE ]
So, after 20 years they stopped actively trying to destroy their economy, and now they're no longer backwards from an economic point of view? Heavy state involvement in banks and financial institutions, bribery, corruption, intimidation of foreign investors, no political or human rights, no IP protection, fiddling with currency values, massive income and opportunity inequality between the coast and inland, no domestic consumption to drive growth...

[/ QUOTE ]

Mere hurdles /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Blarg]

The per capita income was like $200 per year just a couple years ago. That can grow by 10% a year for a very very long time before the country resembles a modern one economically. The economy is extremely highly concentrated in just a few places the whole country is trying to get into, but can't. They need more taking over of the guys who really knew how to do it, like Taiwan, they way they did Hong Kong. It's like Einstein being ruled by a cage full of monkeys.

And the winner for "Understatement of the Year" is...........





[ QUOTE ]

Mere hurdles /images/graemlins/grin.gif


[/ QUOTE ]




clever line, tho

[Aloysius]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Backwards government? All the smart Chinese are growing the U.S.?

You, sir, need to pick up an Economist / Finanical Times / really any periodical even one as lame as Time or Newsweek to get a better sense of where China is in terms of its economy, government (this is not the communist China of yesteryear, not even close), and global initiatives as it begins positionining itself as the next (perhaps only) superpower.

It's still years off is my sense, but the incredible progress on the mainland - and as per capita income grows throughout the country - game over man.


[/ QUOTE ]

So, after 20 years they stopped actively trying to destroy their economy, and now they're no longer backwards from an economic point of view? Heavy state involvement in banks and financial institutions, bribery, corruption, intimidation of foreign investors, no political or human rights, no IP protection, fiddling with currency values, massive income and opportunity inequality between the coast and inland, no domestic consumption to drive growth...

Yeah, sounds great. I feel perfectly confident projecting the growth of the last few years indefinitely into the future. Just like S. Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, and Japan.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think I ever said China is a sophisticated economy with great corporate governance and market infrastructure - I just said it was not backwards. It has taken dramatic steps through government and private investment to help build a solid economic / social infrastructure. If you believe that the last 10 years alone has not brought China up from "backwards" status to "emerging market building economy", I would have to disagree vehemently with you.

You are incorrect regarding domestic consumption, or spending in general as a driver of growth. Domestic demand, particularly private / domestic consumption has been a driver of growth for China 2004 and 2005 to-date.

Heavy state involvement in Chinese businesses / banks, a country with zero infrastructure, is critical to their growth. I don't see this as a negative thing, for now. You seem to list it as a major hurdle facing the country. Would you rather they be India, another country with no infrastructure, but also no driver for implementing economic policy?

Most importantly, China is a far different country than S. Korea (easily understood upside in technolgoies... ever heard of Samsung?), which is far different from Taiwan, Singapore and Japan (all 3 of which are fairly mature markets). It's very odd that you would choose to lump Asian countries together in this fashion.

[Aloysius]

[ QUOTE ]
The per capita income was like $200 per year just a couple years ago. That can grow by 10% a year for a very very long time before the country resembles a modern one economically. The economy is extremely highly concentrated in just a few places the whole country is trying to get into, but can't. They need more taking over of the guys who really knew how to do it, like Taiwan, they way they did Hong Kong. It's like Einstein being ruled by a cage full of monkeys.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point (re- evaluating China as a modern economy).

However, I think per capita income in China is a somewhat misleading figure in terms of judging whether or not China is a significant economy and potential superpower. With a market this incredibly large, there just needs to be enough spending power to have significant global impact. Mainland gets the job done.

I think China will be judged on its global impact / position, not on the success of the coastal provinces, for now.

But as the coastal per capita income grows, imagine the market power of China... disturbing...

China is obviously years away (as I stated in my original post), but again, I would disagree that it's a backwards economy, and is beginning to resembling a modern economy.

[Colonel Kataffy]

[ QUOTE ]
clever line, tho

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks. I actually spent a good deal of time studying it in undergrad, and it certianly was an understatment. They are facing some pretty serious problems. The truth is that China has done amazing ever since Deng took over--much better than anyone could have imagined, China is definitely on shakey ground. The one thing that is particulary troubling is the disparity of wealth between the urban areas and countryside. This is the stuff that revolutions are made of.

[imitation]

I made this thread when i was drunk nad itg ot replies now im drunker SWEEEEET dides

[bobman0330]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think I ever said China is a sophisticated economy with great corporate governance and market infrastructure - I just said it was not backwards. It has taken dramatic steps through government and private investment to help build a solid economic / social infrastructure. If you believe that the last 10 years alone has not brought China up from "backwards" status to "emerging market building economy", I would have to disagree vehemently with you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well then you vehemently disagree with me. WSJ published an interesting account of Rupert Murdoch's efforts to invest in China. As a free media proponent who had claimed that his satellite network was a threat to totalitarianism everywhere, he was much disliked by China. Shortly after that speech, private ownership of satellite dishes was outlawed. Gaining permission to do business there required an elaborate series of kowtowing and obsequiousness to various party officials.

Despite its growth, China is in no way comparable to a modern economy. At the moment, growth and foreign investment proceed anyways, just because there is so much opportunity for profit. As China joins the ranks of developed nations in terms of domestic costs, labor costs, etc., opportunities will decrease to the point that they no longer compensate for the risks and costs of gov't interference, bribery, theft of IP, or de facto confiscation.

[ QUOTE ]

You are incorrect regarding domestic consumption, or spending in general as a driver of growth. Domestic demand, particularly private / domestic consumption has been a driver of growth for China 2004 and 2005 to-date.


[/ QUOTE ]

Source? I am aware they've been trying to break out of the classic export reliance that characterizes a lot of E. Asian economies. It remains to be seen how successful they have been and will continue to be.

[ QUOTE ]

Heavy state involvement in Chinese businesses / banks, a country with zero infrastructure, is critical to their growth. I don't see this as a negative thing, for now. You seem to list it as a major hurdle facing the country. Would you rather they be India, another country with no infrastructure, but also no driver for implementing economic policy?

[/ QUOTE ]

India is accomplishing a good deal with purely private venture capital and other forms of non-state financing. The short-term results may be less impressive, but how comfortable would you be running a business with the Chinese government as a silent partner?

[ QUOTE ]

Most importantly, China is a far different country than S. Korea (easily understood upside in technolgoies... ever heard of Samsung?), which is far different from Taiwan, Singapore and Japan (all 3 of which are fairly mature markets). It's very odd that you would choose to lump Asian countries together in this fashion.

[/ QUOTE ]

As you may or may not be aware, SK, Singapore, and Taiwan are three of the four "Asian tigers" which experienced massive growth in past decades which has recently slowed, in part because of government intervention in currency.

Japan of course was the last country that was a huge peril to US economic hegemony. We all know how that turned out...

Got to run, but I have a couple more things to say about export dependence.

[xadrez]

HIDE FLUFFY!!

http://www.rockymountainministries.org/NewFiles/ScaredCat.jpg

[imitation]

nimenmeiyouxiaodidi hahaha, my PP name is so sweet.

[ QUOTE ]


This is the stuff that revolutions are made of.



[/ QUOTE ]

If only that were true. I can't help but keep remembering a snippet on one of the news networks.

Either during or just after the Tiannamen Sq. "ruckus," reporter stops an old man on the outskirts of town, riding his bike back home. When asked his opinion of the "ruckus," the old man said, "That's city business. It doesn't concern me."

And that, to this day bothers me. If he was anywhere near voicing the popular opinion of the people living in the countryside, where the majority is, there won't ever be a successful revolution. And their struggle to merely survive will continue. And their "leaders" will continue to live the good life.

/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[Blarg]

Revolutions come from the middle class, usually, not the poor. The poor are usually just trying to scrape by and terrified that any change will only make things worse and wipe them out completely. Plus it's hard to organize and agitate when you're working 12 hour days and it's all you can do to cram some food in your face at night before you flop down exhausted. What the poor often really want most of all is a little more food or rest, not to gamble what little there is of their meager lives on what change might bring. The peasant is often a born conservative.

[JihadOnTheRiver]

I think by the time we go to war with them I'll be somewhere around a squadron commander. I can't wait to give an order that leads to the death of several thousand of their soldiers.

[4_2_it]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm going to be [censored] happy.

WHAT ABOUT YOU?????

ps I hope the re introduce golden passports.

[/ QUOTE ]

We will all be dead and my great-great grandson will be the hero who pushes the button of the doomsday device that ends all sentient life on earth.

[ QUOTE ]
Heavy state involvement in banks and financial institutions, bribery, corruption, intimidation of foreign investors, no political or human rights, no IP protection, fiddling with currency values, massive income and opportunity inequality between the coast and inland, no domestic consumption to drive growth...

[/ QUOTE ]

The Democrats would be no better though. Oh, sorry, you're talking about China....

[MonkeeMan]

...fortune cookie prophecies will come true.

[Colonel Kataffy]

[ QUOTE ]

Revolutions come from the middle class, usually, not the poor. The poor are usually just trying to scrape by and terrified that any change will only make things worse and wipe them out completely. Plus it's hard to organize and agitate when you're working 12 hour days and it's all you can do to cram some food in your face at night before you flop down exhausted. What the poor often really want most of all is a little more food or rest, not to gamble what little there is of their meager lives on what change might bring. The peasant is often a born conservative.

[/ QUOTE ]

There have been 3 major rebellions in recent Chinese history. In all three, the Countryside has provided the fuel for the fire.

The tiaping rebelion:

"Socio-economically the Taipings came almost exclusively from the lowest classes. Many of the southern Taiping troops were former miners, especially those coming from the Zhuang. Very few Taipings, even amongst the leadership caste, came from the imperial bureacracy. Almost none were landlords and in occupied territories landlords were often executed. In this sense the Taiping army was a prototype for the People's Liberation Army of the twentieth century."--wikipedia

The Boxer Rebellion:

"In northern Shandong province, a devastating drought was pushing people to the edge of starvation. Few people there were thinking about making peace. A secret society, known as the Fists of Righteous Harmony, attracted thousands of followers"--http://www.smplanet.com/imperialism/fists.html

Communist Rebellion:

"Communist Party activists retreated underground or to the countryside where they fomented a military revolt (Nanchang Uprising on August 1, 1927), combined the force with remnants of peasant rebels, and established control over several areas in southern China. Attempts by the Nationalist armies to suppress the rebellion were unsuccessful but extremely damaging to the Communist forces."--wikipedia

[Blarg]

Revolutionary leaders are generally from the middle class or higher. Peasant uprisings are exceptions, not the rule, and even then are usually led by people more educated than themselves. And they are not always popular among the peasants.

The Khmer Rouge was about as peasant a revolution as you could get. But the leader wasn't a peasant. Same with the Vietnamese revolution. This is the common pattern. Every army needs troops, and they come from the underclass whether the underclass likes it or not. But the leadership generally does not.

[imitation]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Revolutions come from the middle class, usually, not the poor. The poor are usually just trying to scrape by and terrified that any change will only make things worse and wipe them out completely. Plus it's hard to organize and agitate when you're working 12 hour days and it's all you can do to cram some food in your face at night before you flop down exhausted. What the poor often really want most of all is a little more food or rest, not to gamble what little there is of their meager lives on what change might bring. The peasant is often a born conservative.

[/ QUOTE ]

There have been 3 major rebellions in recent Chinese history. In all three, the Countryside has provided the fuel for the fire.

The tiaping rebelion:

"Socio-economically the Taipings came almost exclusively from the lowest classes. Many of the southern Taiping troops were former miners, especially those coming from the Zhuang. Very few Taipings, even amongst the leadership caste, came from the imperial bureacracy. Almost none were landlords and in occupied territories landlords were often executed. In this sense the Taiping army was a prototype for the People's Liberation Army of the twentieth century."--wikipedia

The Boxer Rebellion:

"In northern Shandong province, a devastating drought was pushing people to the edge of starvation. Few people there were thinking about making peace. A secret society, known as the Fists of Righteous Harmony, attracted thousands of followers"--http://www.smplanet.com/imperialism/fists.html

Communist Rebellion:

"Communist Party activists retreated underground or to the countryside where they fomented a military revolt (Nanchang Uprising on August 1, 1927), combined the force with remnants of peasant rebels, and established control over several areas in southern China. Attempts by the Nationalist armies to suppress the rebellion were unsuccessful but extremely damaging to the Communist forces."--wikipedia

[/ QUOTE ]

Mao was a hunan farmer that man knew how to plow some paddocks, i'll post pictures of his house next month i'm visiting unless i get to drunk and spend my money.

[Colonel Kataffy]

[ QUOTE ]
Revolutionary leaders are generally from the middle class or higher.

[/ QUOTE ]

Even if that were necessarily true, there is no reason to think that leader of a future chinese revolution stemming from the disparity of wealth between the urban population and the countryside could not come from the upper or middle class.

[mmbt0ne]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En réponse à:</font><hr />
Revolutionary leaders are generally from the middle class or higher.

[/ QUOTE ]

Jean Valjean objects!

bobman0330, it's clear you have no idea what you're talking about and are just spouting off the Fox News line. Get off it man. China is going to take over. Get ready for it.

[arod15]

No way, USA Manifest destiny lives on....

[bobman0330]

[ QUOTE ]
bobman0330, it's clear you have no idea what you're talking about and are just spouting off the Fox News line. Get off it man. China is going to take over. Get ready for it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really need to start watching Fox News and the O'Reilly show and all these other things that are imputed to me. They sound like great programming!

[daryn]

"ROR"

[mostsmooth]

[ QUOTE ]

Mao was a hunan farmer that man knew how to plow some paddocks, i'll post pictures of his house next month i'm visiting unless i get to drunk and spend my money.

[/ QUOTE ]
post some pics of the natives please, naked if possible