A discussion on calling standards

[GtrHtr]

I play a fairly tight calling range when the pusher is not a shorty. What is your play here with 7.5 BB after posting?

***** Hand History for Game 2862701975 *****
200/400 Tourney Texas Hold'em Game Table (NL) (Tournament 16482688) - Mon Oct 24 20:51:51 EDT 2005
Table Table 35064 (Real Money) -- Seat 7 is the button
Total number of players : 5
Seat 1: michael (1970)
Seat 4: thenagain (1740)
Seat 7: SMU (1495)
Seat 9: Griper (1065)
Seat 10: Hero (1730)
Griper posts small blind (100)
Hero posts big blind (200)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ Jh, Js ]
michael folds.
thenagain folds.
SMU folds.
Griper raises (965) to 1065
Griper is all-In.
Hero?

What is your calling range in this situation? Example: AK+, TT+

[Melchiades]

Call.

[unfrgvn]

J's in the BB against a SB push? Auto call and it is not close. I would guess he probably has one over card.

What they said.

Edit: it gets more interesting if you'd answer some questions like 'has he pushed a lot before?', 'is he tight or loose?', 'is he aggressive or passive?'. This way you can put him on a range of hands and you can calculate stuff.

If he has folded every single hand up until now (not likely /images/graemlins/tongue.gif) he might have AA!

[GtrHtr]

Good point. The pusher played a lot like me. Very tight early, and was opening up his game in level 5. He wasn't a pushing maniac but was picking his spots.

[zambonidrivr]

this is not even close

[Scuba Chuck]

As usual, this can be answered with math (and subsequently through $EV analysis). Furthermore, once you consider that he has 5 BBs preflop, and that he is the short stack, you'll realize his range here is enormous. I am absolutely certain JJ will fair very well here against his range. In fact, I think it correct for him to be pushing top 50% of hands at least. I would think that the 4th best starting hand would fair well against that range.

[ QUOTE ]
Good point. The pusher played a lot like me. Very tight early, and was opening up his game in level 5. He wasn't a pushing maniac but was picking his spots.

[/ QUOTE ]

If he plays 2+2 style (tight early, loose/aggressive late), he could have a lot of hands. Especially if he's seen you folding to raises a lot. I'd have any two there. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[GtrHtr]

Ok, so I picked a poor hand to post for this "discussion."

I am really curious what your calling ranges are in this situation.

[tigerite]

[ QUOTE ]
Call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Quickly, too.

I think this is where SNG Powertools comes in handy.

If he pushes: 22+,A2+,K2+,Q2s+,Q6o+,J7s+,J9o+,T8s+,98s (pretty wide range, but not unrealistic), you can call: 44+,A7o+,A2s+,KTo+,K9s+ (19%).

If he pushes: 22+,A2s+,A3o+,KTs+,KJo+,QJs you can call: 66+,AT+ (9%). I doubt he'll be much tighter, and if he is you can only call with premium hands.

So, it depends on your read.

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
I play a fairly tight calling range when the pusher is not a shorty. What is your play here with 7.5 BB after posting?

***** Hand History for Game 2862701975 *****
200/400 Tourney Texas Hold'em Game Table (NL) (Tournament 16482688) - Mon Oct 24 20:51:51 EDT 2005
Table Table 35064 (Real Money) -- Seat 7 is the button
Total number of players : 5
Seat 1: michael (1970)
Seat 4: thenagain (1740)
Seat 7: SMU (1495)
Seat 9: Griper (1065)
Seat 10: Hero (1730)
Griper posts small blind (100)
Hero posts big blind (200)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ Jh, Js ]
michael folds.
thenagain folds.
SMU folds.
Griper raises (965) to 1065
Griper is all-In.
Hero?

What is your calling range in this situation? Example: AK+, TT+

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd say that is about right...in the BB and depending on read maybe Aq+ 99+...I'd call with JJ here in BB all day.

Edit: yeah, if I have him as a "push almost any two" type character, I might widen my range even more...but not down to 66, and AT is pushing it for me considering the stacks.

[Melchiades]

[ QUOTE ]
What is your calling range in this situation? Example: AK+, TT+

[/ QUOTE ]
Without any special reads (typical opponent). AT+ 66+ KJ+
At least. Probably a few more aces. And any to soooooted cards off course. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[GtrHtr]

I think your are correct in setting the villains range, but the question I am asking is what is your calling range?

[Melchiades]

You misunderstood. That was my calling range versus a typical villain. I think villain pushes a lot of hands here.

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
You misunderstood. That was my calling range versus a typical villain. I think villain pushes a lot of hands here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think your calling range is WAYYYY too wide. This is what seperates us from the animals!

[Melchiades]

It is a small blind push with 5 BB, his range should be huge here. Huuuuge. If he has folded to my BB the last 4 orbits everything changes off course. But I don't think my range is too bad here.

[GtrHtr]

I totally agree with Pooh. This calling range is way too wide.

[Melchiades]

Ok. Wouldn't you push a huge range of hands if you were SB here?

[downtown]

[ QUOTE ]
What is your calling range in this situation

[/ QUOTE ]
My gut reaction without running any numbers is 77+, ATs+, AJo+... that's what I would play if it were game time and I was in your spot.

I definitely mix it up with JJ. 77 I would be borderline, but probably call. 66 I would toss.

[GtrHtr]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok. Wouldn't you push a huge range of hands if you were SB here?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would, and this gets to the heart of what I'm getting at. Pushing standards vs calling standards.

[tigerite]

Otherwise known as "the gap concept"..

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, so I picked a poor hand to post for this "discussion."

I am really curious what your calling ranges are in this situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

My calling range here would be:

Any pocker pair from 77.
A9+. 8 would be read dependant and 7- would be a toss.
K10+. 9 would be an easy toss.
Any broadway

Too tight/loose?

Oh and about the actual hand, I would insta call putting villain on:

22+,A2s+,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,A2o+,KTo+,QTo+,JTo. Now, that is a pretty tight range though and he can very well have an even worse hand. But against these hands:

563,348,016 games 1.218 secs 462,518,896 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 67.3191 % 66.91% 00.41% { JcJd }
Hand 2: 32.6809 % 32.27% 00.41% { 22+, A2s+, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, A2o+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo }

Easy decision.

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
Otherwise known as "the gap concept"..

[/ QUOTE ]

never heard of it...

[Melchiades]

Might be a leak in my game. But in the stars turbos I find it SB's range is pretty huge and depending on a read off course I think calling with AT+ 66+ KJ+ sounds pretty sensible. I don't have that push calculator program (eastbays tool) though. If I were to remove any hands from my range it would be the K hands. I can't see ever folding AT+ or 66+ here. Is this a leak? /images/graemlins/blush.gif

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
Might be a leak in my game. But in the stars turbos I find it SB's range is pretty huge and depending on a read off course I think calling with AT+ 66+ KJ+ sounds pretty sensible. I don't have that push calculator program (eastbays tool) though. If I were to remove any hands from my range it would be the K hands. I can't see ever folding AT+ or 66+ here. Is this a leak? /images/graemlins/blush.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I think your range should vary slightly given how many left and stack sizes obviously...in the above example, like I said above (havent run any #s keep in mind) that I am hard pressed to call with 66 there, and AT if its suited cas its so close in my eyes.

AJ+ 77+ no K high nonsense.

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ok, so I picked a poor hand to post for this "discussion."

I am really curious what your calling ranges are in this situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

My calling range here would be:

Any pocker pair from 77.
A9+. 8 would be read dependant and 7- would be a toss.
K10+. 9 would be an easy toss.
Any broadway

Too tight/loose?

Oh and about the actual hand, I would insta call putting villain on:

22+,A2s+,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,A2o+,KTo+,QTo+,JTo. Now, that is a pretty tight range though and he can very well have an even worse hand. But against these hands:

563,348,016 games 1.218 secs 462,518,896 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 67.3191 % 66.91% 00.41% { JcJd }
Hand 2: 32.6809 % 32.27% 00.41% { 22+, A2s+, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, A2o+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo }

Easy decision.

[/ QUOTE ]

Man, I should tighten my pushing standards against you loosey callers...

/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

The reason it's so loose is because I'm putting him on a steal so that justifies that range if you ask me. However, if I where in the game I'd probably have a good read on him which would either tighten up my range or making my posted range acceptable.

[microbet]

A read makes a big difference here, but without a read I think a calling range of about 55+, ATo+, A9s+ is about right. He is pushing from SB afterall so he probably has at least a little pushbot in him. The very tightest I think you can be here is about 77+, AQo+, AJs+; at least not without a very good read on him.

[Bigwig]

Since when is 5BB not a 'shorty?'

[AA suited]

ah.. blinds are 100/200, not 200/400.

if he's been tight, i would call with any pair, ATo+, A2s+.

if he's been stealing my blind, i would call top 25%.

[jeffraider]

Without thinking about it too hard I'd probably call with 88 (Maaaybe 77) or AT.

[d1sterbd]

[ QUOTE ]
If he has folded every single hand up until now (not likely /images/graemlins/tongue.gif) he might have AA!

[/ QUOTE ]

It doesn't matter if you know for a fact he is a rock.. it is definitely a call with JJ+, AQ+ and probably a call at 10 10 and A10+

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Quickly, too.

[/ QUOTE ]

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
ah.. blinds are 100/200, not 200/400.

if he's been tight, i would call with any pair, ATo+, A2s+.

if he's been stealing my blind, i would call top 25%.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats just nuts dude. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[Nick M]

[ QUOTE ]
equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 67.3191 % 66.91% 00.41% { JcJd }
Hand 2: 32.6809 % 32.27% 00.41% { 22+, A2s+, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, A2o+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo }

[/ QUOTE ]

god that makes me so hot...excuse me i need to go to the bathroom

[Nick M]

i think 99 is a better one to ask.

[GtrHtr]

[ QUOTE ]
i think 99 is a better one to ask.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep. I played this hand and then started thinking about calling standards. The hand was a no brainer but I honestly wanted to get a feel for posters calling standards.

I insta called in this case and then asked myself, with the stacks like this, how low would I go?

A much more interesting poster than me would've sub'ed 99 for the JJ and that actually crossed my mind - after the first 3 posters replied - which was too late. I've got another one tho...