pocket jacks

First real hand post, please forgive my noobieness. I found the 2+2 forums around the first of October and I've seem to become somewhat addicted to this place. I realized that to improve faster I would have to learn how to post hands.

Villian is somewhat loose though the game is tight in general(playing to clear a first real money dep. bonus)



PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif. CO posts a blind of $2.
<font color="#CC3333">hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP1 :#A500AF(villian)/ calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, BB calls.

Flop: (11.50 SB) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">hero bets</font>, villian calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, BB calls.

Turn: (8.25 BB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">villian raises</font>, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, BB folds, hero calls.

River: (16.25 BB) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
hero checks, villian checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, MP3 calls,


What's my best move now?

I'm not sure what the problem is - are you afraid the villain (note spelling /images/graemlins/wink.gif) has QJ? I'd say it's more likely he's spiked top pair, two-pair or maybe an open-ended draw. The river is a great card for you, obviously. I'd bet out with my straight, but with the way you played it I'd consider calling to get the villain's overcall (you're splitting with MP2 a lot of the time here I think).

I think you should have 3 bet the turn. You have OESD and top pair, and your top pair include 2 cards to the only hand that has you beat (QJ)

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I think you should have 3 bet the turn. You have OESD and top pair, and your top pair include 2 cards to the only hand that has you beat (QJ)

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I agree. We're 3-betting the turn because the villain is often raising with top pair.

[mtdoak]

easy raise. With two of the stopper cards in your hand, he probably has two pair, maybe a set.

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easy raise. With two of the stopper cards in your hand, he probably has two pair, maybe a set.

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Are you talking about MP2? He's betting out on the river into a board showing four to a straight. The fact that we have two of the jacks in our hand doesn't change this fact.

In this situation I'd raise, but like I said above we're probably splitting and it may be worth going for an overcall. Once we raise on this board anyone without a J is going to fold, even if it's just one more bet back to them.

[W. Deranged]

First two streets look great.

I think we need to three-bet the turn here. We are open-ended, may very well have the best hand, and have even more outs against any two pair hand. Our equity here on average is going to be way over 25%, which is what we need if the pot remains four-handed.

If we three-bet and don't get capped, we're leading the river, obviously.

Even here, I think a river lead works nicely. Villain may very likely check here because the four-straight came on board. Since his hand is likely NOT to be a straight (unless he has precisely JT or the nuts QJ), you're not getting raised all that often from the player next to you. But you want to make it tough for him to fold. So you bet to capture his bet. If it gets raised behind you, there's not need to take it to three-bets, but betting helps to assure that at least one bet goes in, and avoids tough spots where checking causes the action to get bet and raised behind you and either others with weak hands get shut out before putting bets in or you have to decide how willing your are to put in two bets hoping for no better than a chop.

[felix83]

I also like the river lead, but given how it's gone up until he asked for advice, I go for the overcall. MP2 likely has a J. So if we raise, Villain likely folds, MP2 likely reraises, and MP3 will probably fold anything other than a straight. I think it's more likely to get more money in from someone we're not splitting with to call and hope villain calls as well.

[Yads]

I like going for an overcall on the river. I also like leading the river.

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Once we raise on this board anyone without a J is going to fold, even if it's just one more bet back to them.


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I think any 6 will also call in this game.

I'm not sure about the overcall, as I think MP3 is more likely to call than villian.

[pistol78]

I like going for an overcall here.

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I'm not sure what the problem is - are you afraid the villain (note spelling /images/graemlins/wink.gif) has QJ? I'd say it's more likely he's spiked top pair, two-pair or maybe an open-ended draw. The river is a great card for you, obviously. I'd bet out with my straight, but with the way you played it I'd consider calling to get the villain's overcall (you're splitting with MP2 a lot of the time here I think).

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Of course I am afraid...
There's a bad part of my brain that keeps saying "think of all the money you save, when you LOSE!!!" and "he could have Q,J for christ sakes". I'm finding it hard to raise on the turn when there is a &gt;50% chance I am behind. It's a leak that will have to be repaired /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Avatar of Wine]

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I'm finding it hard to raise on the turn when there is a &gt;50% chance I am behind. It's a leak that will have to be repaired /images/graemlins/grin.gif

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Think about it like this - there are only 2 J left in the deck, and 3 T . . . this makes QJ a lot less likely than any T, even 2pair Ts. I'm just not sure that you're really behind 50% of the time on the turn - and of those times you are behind, your redraws are excellent against 2p and ass-end straights . . . and you're certainly not behind QJ for the raw balls 50+% of the time.

I would bet out the river; as the action progressed, I'd probably raise and call coming back.

I would raise and call a reraise. The hand that you are worried about is JQ. Your holding of JJ makes that an unlikely hand to be up against. Just in case, I would flat call if reraised.

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First two streets look great.

I think we need to three-bet the turn here. We are open-ended, may very well have the best hand, and have even more outs against any two pair hand. Our equity here on average is going to be way over 25%, which is what we need if the pot remains four-handed.

If we three-bet and don't get capped, we're leading the river, obviously.

Even here, I think a river lead works nicely. Villain may very likely check here because the four-straight came on board. Since his hand is likely NOT to be a straight (unless he has precisely JT or the nuts QJ), you're not getting raised all that often from the player next to you. But you want to make it tough for him to fold. So you bet to capture his bet. If it gets raised behind you, there's not need to take it to three-bets, but betting helps to assure that at least one bet goes in, and avoids tough spots where checking causes the action to get bet and raised behind you and either others with weak hands get shut out before putting bets in or you have to decide how willing your are to put in two bets hoping for no better than a chop.

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equity,equity,equity... a concept with which I have not fully integrated with, on my playing of poker. My checking on the river may have been caused by my not three betting the turn which I had a feeling might have been an error. Therefore to make up for it I would brilliantly check raise villain on the river(without fully considering the likelyhood of villain not betting, with 4 to a open end straight on board) /images/graemlins/crazy.gif