Interesting 15/30 AA hand live

[stackm]

Loose Monday evening 15 game at Hollywood Park. I've got A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif A /images/graemlins/heart.gif and raise UTG. Thinking player to my left cold calls, folded around to the big blind (solid regular) who also calls. ~6.5 SB going to the flop (the small blind is two-thirds of a bet, subtract a bit for the rake).

Flop comes 5 /images/graemlins/spade.gif6 /images/graemlins/spade.gif8 /images/graemlins/club.gif. Blind checks, I bet, player to my left calls, blind check-raises, I three-bet, both players just call. 15.5 SB and we see the turn, which is the 7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. Blind bets, I fold with the four-straight on the board.

Bad laydown here getting 7.5-1? I should mention that I had seven chips left in front of me, so a call would put me all in; therefore future action was not a concern. Results to follow...

[BoxTree]

[ QUOTE ]
Loose Monday evening 15 game at Hollywood Park. I've got A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif A /images/graemlins/heart.gif and raise UTG. Thinking player to my left cold calls, folded around to the big blind (solid regular) who also calls. ~6.5 SB going to the flop (the small blind is two-thirds of a bet, subtract a bit for the rake).

Flop comes 5 /images/graemlins/spade.gif6 /images/graemlins/spade.gif8 /images/graemlins/club.gif. Blind checks, I bet, player to my left calls, blind check-raises, I three-bet, both players just call. 15.5 SB and we see the turn, which is the 7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. Blind bets, I fold with the four-straight on the board.

Bad laydown here getting 7.5-1? I should mention that I had seven chips left in front of me, so a call would put me all in; therefore future action was not a concern. Results to follow...

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Whoa.

I mean, "Whoa!"

Seven chips left?!? Why? Stop or buy more chips. But why are you allowing yourself to get all-in?

Anyhow, I don't like a fold here. The flop c/r could mean any number of things. Maybe he had a pair and an OESD, in which case he now has two pair so you have eight outs on the river. Maybe he thinks you're pushing too hard with AK because you're practically all-in.

At any rate, for seven chips and a free river, I call. No problem.

[stackm]

[ QUOTE ]

Seven chips left?!? Why? Stop or buy more chips. But why are you allowing yourself to get all-in?

Anyhow, I don't like a fold here. The flop c/r could mean any number of things. Maybe he had a pair and an OESD, in which case he now has two pair so you have eight outs on the river. Maybe he thinks you're pushing too hard with AK because you're practically all-in.

At any rate, for seven chips and a free river, I call. No problem.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know that I shouldn't be playing that short, but...I was. Oh well. In any case, my stack is significant in that I get to see the river for free, but should it matter that "I only have seven chips left?" I understand the argument that it should, but isn't that pretty much based on emotion and not solid play?

BTW, this is an easy call for me if it's heads up. I'm actually a lot more worried about the player behind me, who may have very well flopped the straight.

it's not a bad laydown, but i'd call if i was going to be all in and re-buy anyways. i think it's likely you were up against a pair and an OESD on the flop. I'd call and see a free river, all in.

[ QUOTE ]
it's not a bad laydown, but i'd call if i was going to be all in and re-buy anyways. i think it's likely you were up against a pair and an OESD on the flop. I'd call and see a free river, all in.

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I have a hard time analyzing this hand since Ive never been close to all in before, but this quote seems right. I dont play no limit either so i dont even have that "all in" experience.

[onegymrat]

Hi Ben,

I am going to go against the grain here and agree with your fold. Your description is that he is a solid regular. One of the things that a solid player will notice is the stack that his opponent has, especially right before the hand is dealt. He KNOWS that you're shortstacked and your propensity to call is high, yet he bets into you again after your flop 3-bet, with another opponent lingering. Your chances of being ahead is very slim.

It seems odd to me that others will just call it down, because you're almost all in. Money is still money, regardless of how much you have left. Good fold. If he's betting into you with A7s and folded a better hand, God bless him.

BTW, what the hell are you people doing up at 4 am? Don't you have class or something?!

[ QUOTE ]
Hi Ben,

I am going to go against the grain here and agree with your fold. Your description is that he is a solid regular. One of the things that a solid player will notice is the stack that his opponent has, especially right before the hand is dealt. He KNOWS that you're shortstacked and your propensity to call is high, yet he bets into you again after your flop 3-bet, with another opponent lingering. Your chances of being ahead is very slim.

It seems odd to me that others will just call it down, because you're almost all in. Money is still money, regardless of how much you have left. Good fold. If he's betting into you with A7s and folded a better hand, God bless him.

BTW, what the hell are you people doing up at 4 am? Don't you have class or something?!

[/ QUOTE ]
You make some good points in your statement, but the problem is that the bettor could easily have just two pair, he certainly would bet two pair since he knows both his opponents are unlikely to have low cards. If the villain does have two pair then the hero has 8 outs to beat him which is why i dont mind the all in play. If the hero was not at the point of all in then I think the hero should fold since theres still a chance of a raise behind him and he will have to pay off the river every time the board pairs and he will not always win and he may even make a bad river call when the board doesnt pair. Being all in makes things alot easier.

[jba]

[ QUOTE ]

I am going to go against the grain here and agree with your fold. Your description is that he is a solid regular. One of the things that a solid player will notice is the stack that his opponent has, especially right before the hand is dealt. He KNOWS that you're shortstacked and your propensity to call is high, yet he bets into you again after your flop 3-bet, with another opponent lingering. Your chances of being ahead is very slim.


[/ QUOTE ]

wouldn't the proper play for BB be to c/r you and trap the player in between if he has a straight or otherwise strong hand?

[onegymrat]

No, BB is afraid it would get checked around. The board is too scary for those without at least two pairs to bet.

[jba]

[ QUOTE ]
No, BB is afraid it would get checked around. The board is too scary for those without at least two pairs to bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

i would think us throwing in our last chips if BB checks is almost a certainty, isn't it?

[onegymrat]

Very true, if uclaben is that type of player. It would, again, depend of the perception of BB. Meh, what do I know? I'm a folder!

[stackm]

Results: River comes an Ace, BB turns over J6 for one pair, player behind me turns over KQ of spades for missed flush draw. I shoot myself in the head.

Oh well.

[smurfitup]

ummm, are you sure the bb's a SOLID regular? who was it?

[stackm]

[ QUOTE ]
ummm, are you sure the bb's a SOLID regular? who was it?

[/ QUOTE ]

In my experience at the table, he's a good player. I know his hand seems crazy here, but I think it's actually a good play - he checkraises as if on some kind of pair + draw (maybe 89?), just calls the three bet, and then comes out betting when the 4-straight hits as if he's afraid his straight is going to check around. Meanwhile, if he's raised again, he can safely fold. I got fooled.

[onegymrat]

I must lose a lot of money at the tables...

[stackm]

BTW, while emotionally this absolute giveaway of a big pot was pretty soul-crushing, rationally I still think it was probably only a marginally bad fold. The reality is that I'm getting, with no implied or reverse implied odds 8.5-1, maybe 9.5-1 if the player behind me calls (which is usually terrible news) - do I have a 10% chance of winning this pot? Seeing as how I'm usually drawing dead, and when I'm not drawing dead I have only 8 outs, and when I'm miraculously ahead (as it turned out) there are still a lot of cards that can beat me, it doesn't seem like I can assume that I have 10% equity in the pot.

In any case, great play by the BB, even if his pre-flop call is pretty loose.

[onegymrat]

[ QUOTE ]
ummm, are you sure the bb's a SOLID regular? who was it?

[/ QUOTE ]You must admit, BB's play was terrific enough to win him the pot. He gambled with a shot that Hero would fold an overpair, while putting LP player on a draw. BB had no chance to win the pot other than to bet and give Hero a chance to fold.

Granted, there is often a fine line between plays that are creative and plays that are maniacal. We just have to trust Hero's word that BB plays a good game. In this case, he did.

[onegymrat]

Hi Ben,

I still stand by my original reply, by advocating a fold. He checkraised your flop bet, called the 3-bet, and then bet into you on the turn. This completely smells of a straight draw with pair, which made it on the turn. He played well. There's often something about live poker that can only be interpreted by the player at the table. In most cases, you are so far behind. I agree with you 100%.

[smurfitup]

i definitely agree w/ the fold on the turn and i'm not arguing the fact that the BB played the hand well. at the same time, though, a solid player usually won't be calling another solid player's utg raise w/ j6. and honestly, we say it looks brilliant now, but i really wonder how often the BB's move will work there. overall, i think his play in the hand was -EV.

[onegymrat]

But it was sooooted...

[smurfitup]

lol, VERY true