When playing 3 and 4 handed how loose is too loose?

[blackize]

My current VPIP for these games averages about %36 with about 18% PFR.

Your VPIP and PFR should be waaaay higher. Treat this game as if when you are in the blinds you are nearly constantly facing steals, and when you are outside of the blinds, you are stealing a lot.

[blackize]

I know my PFR should be higher. I have played around with how much I steal and have found that if I push my PFR much higher than it is my fold equity is gone.

The funny thing is very few people raise on pure steals there so I have had to be considerably tighter in the blinds.

If the blinds are loose, you can consider just calling on the button. That way they are less inclined to stay in the pot when you are just betting when last to act to pick up the pot.

Howevr, I've found that even though I lose a lot of fold equity, this is generally to my advantage. They will start calling me down with bad hands, making bad raises, and going to showdown too much against my good hands.

Since you have the button, you chose how many bets go in the pot, and you have the option of taking a freecard. As a result, you win more when ahead, and lose less when behind.

[blackize]

You make a very good point here. I might have to give this another try. A lot of the reason I wanted to increase my fold equity was because I was running horribly for a while playing as you suggest.

Mainly I just wanted to know if anyone thought 36% was too loose, and you came in and assured me it wasn't and gave me some excellent advice to go along with it. Thanks.

[slik]

"vpip must be considered in the context of how many people are seated at the table. Nate tha’ great posted these stats for his shorthanded play:

2-handed 55% vpip
3-handed 46% vpip
4-handed 36% vpip
5-handed 29% vpip
6-handed 25% vpip"

[blackize]

Thanks slik. I now need a a WTSD stat for the same numbers if possible.

Any links to Nate's threads on the subject would be greatly appreciated as well.

[blackize]

Bumpage

[T-REX]

[ QUOTE ]
The funny thing is very few people raise on pure steals there so I have had to be considerably tighter in the blinds.

[/ QUOTE ]

Where are you playing and what limit?

I queried some 4 handed play earlier in the week.

Yesterday I read in Weighing the Odds by King Yao that you can steal more liberally in a 6 or 5 handed game than you can in a 3 or 4 handed game, which matches what you say regarding they steal less.

Nates stats are all well and good, but hes an expert player and no doubt can play more hands from all positions.

[blackize]

I play mainly 2/4 and 3/6 at Party and Absolute.

I tried to find a post by Nate on the subject, but found too much gold in his posts before coming to that one. Basically I ran out of time reading his other stuff. In searching the archives I have found that Nate generally advocates playing tighter than a strong post flop player can get away with.

Id still like some advice on how often I should be showing down 3 and 4 handed though....come on guys I know some of you know the answer.

[slik]

I got those under the Hush "Posting Guideline - new posters please read" thread -- the first thread in this forum. there is some interesting stuff there. i don't think the wtsd % is as consistent super short handed as it is 5-6 handed -- that is, it is much more so player dependent. basically i don't know where such data is, but i don't think it would be much use to know it anyhow 3-4 handed. gl.