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View Full Version : i dont know what im doing, do you?

TStoneMBD
10-25-2005, 01:25 AM
villain is 24/11/1.6.

for those recommending a preflop raise i normally do that, but i think its vital to mix it up and limp in with aces especially weak ones sometimes.

if the river was a J, Q or 8 i was checkfolding.

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (4 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter (http://www.pokerhand.org)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (2 SB) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls.

Turn: (3 BB) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks with the intention of folding, BB checks.

River: (3 BB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 5 BB
d10
10-25-2005, 01:33 AM
Im not sure what the point of the CR is if you're not going to follow through on the turn.
baronzeus
10-25-2005, 01:34 AM
just bet the flop IMO, he will fold here a lot.

also you can raise preflop against this guy. he'll either just fold straight up for c/f a missed flop.
ArturiusX
10-25-2005, 01:34 AM
Why not raise preflop? Good equity edge, good showdown value.
Victor
10-25-2005, 01:36 AM
just bet the flop.
TStoneMBD
10-25-2005, 01:36 AM
i dont want to discuss preflop here. again i think its necessary to sometimes limp in with weak aces. thats just part of my philosophy of sb defense.
Surfbullet
10-25-2005, 01:44 AM
I like the flop c/r, because he will bet here with any 2 when you check again.

Once he calls it, though, he's hit the board somehow (pair or draw or whatever) and the c/f intent on the turn is good, betting here is spewing. You'll snap off enough bluffs on river blanks that a call is good there too.

I generally like the way it was played. However, I don't like how it all started - preflop - against this particular player... IMO we shouldn't be open-completing anything vs a TAG. I can understand this is an integral part of a specific SB strategy against a 50/30 or something, but this guy's a TAG. Most times he folds pf or on the flop, when he doesn't we get to play some poker.

Also...I don't think open-limping a weak ace is a particularly good idea vs other players, unless it is with the intention of LRRing it...many of the LAGs will autoraise any sb complete, whereby LRRing A5o becomes a nice play.

Surf
helpmeout
10-25-2005, 01:47 AM
Not raising preflop is fine but going for a checkraise and then calling a river bet is pretty bad. This board is pretty scary so betting out is more effective.

I really dont see what he is calling the checkraise with that doesnt have you beat on the river.
TStoneMBD
10-25-2005, 01:51 AM
not that its right, but after he takes the free card i think hell have just a gutshot a decent amount of time no?
helpmeout
10-25-2005, 01:55 AM
He limps with the weak Ace so people think that he doesnt have an ace.

A TAG will automatically know that a limp doesnt mean an Ace, it usually means hey I've got a weak hand that I wanna test you with to see if I can get away with limping.
helpmeout
10-25-2005, 01:59 AM
Why would he call a checkraise in a tiny unraised pot with a gutshot?

The only hands I'd call with would be an overcard + gutshot and of course any sane person would raise that preflop so he either has Qx or Jx which isnt good enough to call here, because his pair outs are tainted.

Much more likely he has a T or a 9 and wants to get to a showdown and induce a call on the river.
Wynton
10-25-2005, 12:55 PM
I don't mind the pf play, because I agree with the philosophy of mixing it up.

I think the flop c/r is fine too, but only if you lead the turn. Many people - and perhaps even most - will call that flop raise reflexively, so the call certainly does not mean that you are beat.
Chobohoya
10-25-2005, 12:58 PM
[ QUOTE ]
He limps with the weak Ace so people think that he doesnt have an ace.

A TAG will automatically know that a limp doesnt mean an Ace, it usually means hey I've got a weak hand that I wanna test you with to see if I can get away with limping.

[/ QUOTE ]

If he's going to think (incorrectly) that we're testing him with a trash hand, then wouldn't we want to take a different postflop line?
Sporky
10-25-2005, 03:46 PM
i'd expect to see something like J9 here. he called the flop raise so it looks like he has something and i'm assuming more than just a bare queen or jack since he ends up betting the river. he checked the turn taking a free card and avoiding another possible c/r because he doesn't have a solid piece of the board. i assume he thinks you have nada on the river when you check to him again so he bets his pair. i don't think it's impossible for this player to bet the river with air, but judging by my past experiences in this spot, he'll usually have a piece.
TStoneMBD
10-25-2005, 04:00 PM
wow nice call. he had precisely J9. suited or unsuited for extra brownie points?
Surfbullet
10-25-2005, 04:14 PM
diamonds.

Surf
Danenania
10-25-2005, 04:20 PM
After a few conversations with Jeff W (not about his hand, just in general), I think check/calling this river is very close to 1BB suicide. Coming from a tight player who has some idea about what's going on, this river bet is simply never a bluff. And even if that's not true, it certainly is not a bluff close to 1 in 5 times. Maybe 1 in 10 or 1 in 15.
Surfbullet
10-25-2005, 05:04 PM
[ QUOTE ]
After a few conversations with Jeff W (not about his hand, just in general), I think check/calling this river is very close to 1BB suicide. Coming from a tight player who has some idea about what's going on, this river bet is simply never a bluff. And even if that's not true, it certainly is not a bluff close to 1 in 5 times. Maybe 1 in 10 or 1 in 15.

[/ QUOTE ]

Upon reflection, I agree. Wow, that's really changed the way I think about calling the river.

Surf
Sporky
10-25-2005, 05:52 PM
[ QUOTE ]
wow nice call. he had precisely J9. suited or unsuited for extra brownie points?

[/ QUOTE ]

i dunno. if he had diamonds do you think he'd bet the turn?
TStoneMBD
10-25-2005, 06:16 PM
i hate bumping this thread over this but he had J9o. i was joking about asking about suits. if he was suited he probably would have raised preflop. :P
10-25-2005, 06:23 PM
Villain played J9o exactly the way I would have,