the fine line between being aggressive and being a fish.

[slydeni]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

MP1 ($65.12)
MP2 ($60.53)
MP3 ($19.50)
CO ($49.70)
Hero ($47.60)
SB ($42.23)
BB ($63.05)
UTG ($24.49)
UTG+1 ($48.60)
UTG+2 ($43.15)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP1 calls $0.50, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Hero calls $0.50, SB (poster) completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($2) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $2</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises to $4</font>, BB folds, MP1 folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $15</font>,villain goes all in, Hero calls $26.73.

*** villain was a fish. His vpip= 47%. PFR= 5%.

I did think his hand was better than mine, but i thought going in here was ok cuz of multiple outs.

-- this is where NL is beating me up and I am having a tough transition from L to NL... should I have not called this?

what should I have been thinking?
can ya help?

thanx
sly

[stu-unger]

when i lead this flop i am doing it to 3bet all in if raised, but that mini raise makes me think that if i hit my outs im going to get paid either way. i think i call his raise in position and stack him with a flush on the turn. i might also take a free card in position on the flop.

[sawseech]

put your money in with ace high against a fish
well played

[wdeadwyler]

Taking a free card here sucks, we want to build a pot in case we do hit. After he minraises us though, Im all about taking the cheap turn and winning big if we hit, and getting away if implied odds dont warrant a turn call.

[erc007]

Even if he has a set here...which might be a longshot...you will have a small statistical edge. You're about even money (1.1 to 1) to make your flush or straight by the river if he dosen't have a set, if he does, your edge is really non-existent as you lose at least 2 of your outs. If he has a set, he is 1.5 to 1 to make quads or a boat by the river. So you're getting all your money in is +EV here.

[RED FACE]

I agree you're in the lead most likely but what you should've been thinking was, "this guy is a fish so I'll wait till I have a 30% edge then jam it pretty hard".

And anyway, if he's a fish is he really going to bet huge on your blank turn? Not necessarily.

If I'm a far worse player I would love to take a coin flip, even if I'm a slight dog in the coin flip.

[Mercman572]

[ QUOTE ]
when i lead this flop i am doing it to 3bet all in if raised

[/ QUOTE ]

why? I think pot is way to small to warrant this. I normal raise would probably be to $6, making the pot around $10 and a push would be for $40 more.

[wdeadwyler]

Villain could have nut str8, two pair, pair plus flush draw, all of which are ahead of hero (though hero has the most equity against two pair).

[Mercman572]

[ QUOTE ]
Villain could have nut str8, two pair, pair plus flush draw, all of which are ahead of hero (though hero has the most equity against two pair).

[/ QUOTE ]

is this in response to me? I think if anything this is more of a reason NOT to 3 bet push from the start, especially against a bad player. you have little to no fold equity against those hands and are being offered very good odds to just call (decent pot odds and juicy implied ones). If the player is good then push if the pot warrants it, but you don't want to be doing this against bad players, bot because of the little fold equity and the fact that you will have many more opportunities against a bad player with better equity then this

[slydeni]

thanx for the replies!

after reading them all, it seems like there is no definite "better play." The arguement regarding the villains fold equity is strong, it seems. Since this is such a close situation anyhow, the added fold equity would help if I went in on turn. Since he is prolly gonna call regardless, maybe I shoulda played it slower and taken cheaper looks, and broke him when i hit.

LESSON LEARNED: Look for better opportunities to get all my money in against fishy type. 50-50 (or slighly worse) is no good. Be patient- there will better opportunities.

Actual result: we flipped. He had 4 5 , giving him 2 pair. turn and river did not help -- and i ship my stack.

sigh...breathe...turn off computer, and watch ultimate fighter.

thanx again guys--
sly