Passive with 99

[ClaytonN]

UTG+2 hasnt gotten out of line in first 25 hands
MP1 is loose passive preflop and loose/crazy postflop. This is after about 100 hands or so.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG+2 checks, MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB folds, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 raises</font>, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (7.25 BB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG+2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, Hero calls, UTG+2 calls.

River: (10.25 BB) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG+2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, Hero calls, UTG+2 calls.

Final Pot: 13.25 BB

I feel like the turn is close between calling and folding, and maybe I should have raised the river? Went for the overcall instead.

There has to be a better line, right?

[W. Deranged]

Three-bet the flop. The rest of the hand plays differently, and much more straightforwardly, from there.

[deception5]

Given this line I think I could find a fold on the turn.

[istewart]

[ QUOTE ]
Three-bet the flop. The rest of the hand plays differently, and much more straightforwardly, from there.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is a pretty good time to wait for a good turn to raise.

However, I'm not sure if that qualifies as a good turn. I think it does though.

EDIT: Nevermind MP1 donked, not UTG+1. He's got a 6.

[W. Deranged]

[ QUOTE ]
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Three-bet the flop. The rest of the hand plays differently, and much more straightforwardly, from there.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is a pretty good time to wait for a good turn to raise.

However, I'm not sure if that qualifies as a good turn. I think it does though.

EDIT: Nevermind MP1 donked, not UTG+1. He's got a 6.

[/ QUOTE ]

Waiting for the turn in concept is fine. I just kind of prefer three-betting here because it makes the other streets easier to play. There are tons of cards on the turn (6s, most of the overcards, 3s, 5s) that will make the turn tough. I prefer to take the aggression now and not commit to having to put in two big bets on the turn before I give myself the opportunity to fold. I also like to know how my opponents respond to a flop three-bet.

[krimson]

I like the 3-bet on the flop idea. I think UTG+2 is cleaning his overcard outs to go alongside a flushdraw fairly often here. Our hand is likely good and should be pushed.

[istewart]

[ QUOTE ]
I like the 3-bet on the flop idea. I think UTG+2 is cleaning his overcard outs to go alongside a flushdraw fairly often here. Our hand is likely good and should be pushed.

[/ QUOTE ]

If UTG+2 has overcards and a flush draw he doesn't at all mind more money going in vs. our 99 3-ways.

[jason_t]

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I feel like the turn is close between calling and folding, and maybe I should have raised the river?

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/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[ClaytonN]

/images/graemlins/confused.gif back

[W. Deranged]

[ QUOTE ]
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I like the 3-bet on the flop idea. I think UTG+2 is cleaning his overcard outs to go alongside a flushdraw fairly often here. Our hand is likely good and should be pushed.

[/ QUOTE ]

If UTG+2 has overcards and a flush draw he doesn't at all mind more money going in vs. our 99 3-ways.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure, but in that case, it's probably not us who's giving him money, it's probably the third guy who has a significant underlay.

[istewart]

[ QUOTE ]
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I like the 3-bet on the flop idea. I think UTG+2 is cleaning his overcard outs to go alongside a flushdraw fairly often here. Our hand is likely good and should be pushed.

[/ QUOTE ]

If UTG+2 has overcards and a flush draw he doesn't at all mind more money going in vs. our 99 3-ways.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure, but in that case, it's probably not us who's giving him money, it's probably the third guy who has a significant underlay.

[/ QUOTE ]

It depends on what these guys are likely to have obviously, but you have a point. Still, if the guy has just the A /images/graemlins/heart.gif he's probably got around 45% equity, so I'm *guessing* that taking into account MP's range we're probably hovering around 33% anyway, or breakeven. I just dislike the idea of having 3 or 4 bets go in on this flop and having to insta-fold the turn a decent amount of the time.

[sfer]

I'm with Jason.

[ClaytonN]

The part about the /images/graemlins/confused.gif, or the part about not elaborating?

[WillMagic]

I like the flop call...we'd like to see a blank turn before going crazy on this board.

But then...you just call the turn. Both MP1 and UTG+2 have a very wide range of hands at this point, and 99 beats big chunks of both ranges. And you also read MP1 as a LAG...Raise it up.

The river is pretty close. I think you aren't getting an overcall as often as MP1 has a hand like 88 or 77....I seriously don't know. I think I raise and call a three-bet.

EDIT: On second thought, I just call the river. But raising the turn is a must.


Will

[istewart]

WM,

Do you agree with raising the turn if MP is an average player? Seems he has a 6 too frequently in this spot, but I'm not sure.

I didn't see that he was a LAG the first time though, yeah then it becomes easy.

[sthief09]

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I think he means that the turn is close between raising and raising

[sthief09]

[ QUOTE ]
Three-bet the flop. The rest of the hand plays differently, and much more straightforwardly, from there.

[/ QUOTE ]


with no hearts 3-betting the turn would be bad

[WillMagic]

Against an average player I don't mind just calling. I think I still lean towards raising though, as I don't think even an average player will have a six here as often as you think. If we get three-bet it's a pretty easy fold, we charge flush draws/overcards the max, and we'll have options on the river.

Will

[W. Deranged]

[ QUOTE ]
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Three-bet the flop. The rest of the hand plays differently, and much more straightforwardly, from there.

[/ QUOTE ]


with no hearts 3-betting the turn would be bad

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you mean the flop or the turn?

[WillMagic]

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Given this line I think I could find a fold on the turn.

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Yuck.

Will

[Jake (The Snake)]

I prefer to just call the flop here without a heart redraw. With only 99 our equity isn't too good against our opponents' ranges. I'd 3-bet with AA (no heart) though.

And I'd raise this turn, but I'd fold to a heart or maybe an overcard depending on what happens.

[Rootabager]

3 bet flop, then lead turn.
As you played it though you should definatly raise the river. You beat a flush ( which probaly would not bet) beat 22 and 44. You didnt get 3 bet so your probaly not against overpair.
What did you think you were against?

[Duerig]

If it were HU, I would call the turn. Here I think you want to raise it.

[ClaytonN]

[ QUOTE ]
I think he means that the turn is close between raising and raising

[/ QUOTE ]

thank you

[sthief09]

[ QUOTE ]
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Three-bet the flop. The rest of the hand plays differently, and much more straightforwardly, from there.

[/ QUOTE ]


with no hearts 3-betting the turn would be bad

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you mean the flop or the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]


sorry, flop

[W. Deranged]

[ QUOTE ]
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Three-bet the flop. The rest of the hand plays differently, and much more straightforwardly, from there.

[/ QUOTE ]


with no hearts 3-betting the turn would be bad

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you mean the flop or the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]


sorry, flop

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I'm pretty convinced that's the case now as well.

[jason_t]

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Raise the turn.