Live NL Flop decision

[runnerunner]

Live $2-5 NL.

3 limpers to hero in CO with A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif Hero calls, button calls, BB raises to $15. Everyone calls. 5 players to the flop.

Flop ($62)
A /images/graemlins/heart.gifA /images/graemlins/spade.gifQ /images/graemlins/heart.gif

Check around to hero ($450) who bets $40. Button ($500) raises to $140. Folded around to hero.

Button is regular in the game who sees a lot of flops and is very aggro post flop. Will make big bets to pick up pots that no one else wants. This is hero's first hand at the table as just came from the must move game.

Hero's action??

[spahk]

i'd probably push. if you call, a turn heart makes this hand impossible to play right oop. a fold is out of the question against normal live game button limping hand range.

I would fold. One of the key factors is 5 people seeing the flop. It is not worth risking your stack in a marginal situation such as this. Remember, it is not another $100 to call as he will likely pressure you the rest of the hand and eventually make you decide for your whole stack.

If you are pretty sure the button will CB this flop, I would actually check the flop to him and C/R him. This will provide a couple of things. First of all, if you are C/R, than you will likely know where you are at far better once he does his action. He may fold and if he calls or raises, you know you are beat and can not put in another dime unless you improve. If he checks behind, you can play the rest of the hand in a weak mannor and try to get a cheap showdown.

[ QUOTE ]
i'd probably push. if you call, a turn heart makes this hand impossible to play right oop. a fold is out of the question against normal live game button limping hand range.

[/ QUOTE ]

In my original response, I was under the impression the button was the original raiser. I am sorry for not reading it correctly. This changes things a little. Hmmm...

[lapoker17]

This is very simple - Will he limp AT or better on the button after a bunch of limpers? If yes, then fine, you can fold if you like. If he would make this raise with A3, then I call and stack him on the turn. If he'll call right now w A3 then push. Not too hard.

If he will make this raise on a paired board with a flush draw, then push too.

Your 40 bet into a pot of 75 right (not 62) is bad unless you were specifically trying to induce this action - in which case you wouldn't be asking us questions about what to do. So bet the pot on the flop.

[psuasskicker]

i'd probably push.

I always thought it would be great to give advice that guarantees a person will win a small pot or lose a really really big one. This is a guaranteed case of only getting called if you're beat.


Just cause he's an aggro that picks up pots no one else wants doesn't mean he's raising a really scary board into a field of players with garbage. Take a step back and think about what he's telling you for a minute...
- BB raised a field of limpers PF.
- On an extremely dangerous flop, BB - the PFR - checked, indicating he's weak or wants to cr.
- On this dangerous flop, a player has led out, clearly representing an Ace.
- He now raises into the PFR by all means indicating he's not scared of the raiser check raising.
- He's also leading into a field...more likely trying to shut out draws than having one of his own.

The only hand I see it as likely you're ahead of here is K/images/graemlins/heart.gif J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, and even that is a questionable raising hand at that spot.

I think you can fold this and not feel bad about it in the least.

- C -

[spahk]

[ QUOTE ]
i'd probably push.

This is a guaranteed case of only getting called if you're beat.



[/ QUOTE ]

play more live.

[sawseech]

i get my wallet out and push

[durrrr]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i'd probably push.

This is a guaranteed case of only getting called if you're beat.



[/ QUOTE ]

play more live.

[/ QUOTE ]

Vs. avg live 2/5 opponent this is a push or call (if you think you can get more $$ in from him on the turn by just calling). If villain is decent its obviously a fold. Very opponent dependent.

[flawless_victory]

[ QUOTE ]

Hero's action??

[/ QUOTE ]
time to do the allin!

Here is a problem I see with just calling.

What happens when the turn comes KQJT? You're now splitting the pot with A8-A2

What happens when the turn comes 8-2? You now may be up against a boat with no way of really knowing it.

I think you must reraise. If not all in, enough so that if he calls the reraise its going in on the turn no matter what hits.

[runnerunner]

Thanks for the replies, although they were a pretty mixed bag from push to call to fold. I was convinced the button would raise with a flush draw or any ace. There is no way he limp-calls with AK or QQ when he has two chances to pop it preflop. AQ he doen't raise my flop bet, he cold calls and lets me hang myself. I figured if I pushed he would fold AT, so the only hand I was worried about was AJ.

I pushed and he went into the tank for about 5 minutes and turned over an Ace and mucked. He mumbled that his kicker wasn't that good, that I could have AQ or AK and he didn't want to call off his whole stack.

[psuasskicker]

play more live.

Well I would, but I live in Richmond and I already play no less than one live session a week. I also take two to four trips a year up to AC for weekends where I get in 40+ hours of live play. This is all split between limit and NL games.

Like I said though, you're only getting called if you're beat. I think you're assuming he's going to call with worse hands just because the original poster described him as LAG. It's one thing to just be some normal LAG. It's another to be a LAG in trying to pick up pots no one else wants but being conservative with your raises.

I'm very LAG in that fashion, it mirrors my play. And if you think I'm gonna call an all in reraise with A8, you just don't know me very well.

It's a totally different thing if you think you can push a better hand off the pot. I do like the logic of figuring your opponent can't have AK there. I also think AQ is unlikely since most would slowplay such a draw-heavy board with a field of players, but you can never discount a LAG from doing anything since they count on their image for extra action.

The problem is that he can make the same assumptions about you if he's holding AJ or AT. You wouldn't have AK, and you're likely going to slowplay AQ - ESPECIALLY if you will be thinking he can put in a raise with a draw. The only better hand a thinking opponent will fold is AT, and even that is a very tough laydown that most people can't make in the heat of the moment.

- C -