Does this guy have the random number generation cracked? (nc)

[betgo]

Party Poker Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind t20 (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

MP2 (t790)
MP3 (t975)
CO (t1335)
Button (t1670)
SB (t665)
BB (t455)
UTG (t1245)
UTG+1 (t1110)
UTG+2 (t900)
Hero (t855)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, CO calls, <font color="#CC3333">Button 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, CO calls, Button calls.

Flop: (13.50 SB, t270) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, CO checks, Button checks.

Turn: (6.75 BB, t270) A/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, CO calls, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, Hero calls, CO calls.

River: (12.75 BB, t510) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, CO folds, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 16.75 BB (t670)

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
Hero has Ks Ah (two pair, aces and sevens).
Button has 4h 5h (straight, seven high).
Outcome: Button wins 16.75 BB (t670). </font>

[woodguy]

Given his position and his hand I like his play a lot.

Regards,
Woodguy

[Toro]

I made a very similar play in a home game last week. But my opponent had KK and I got paid off even better.

[Steve Chase]

What a nice play by the Button.
If you cannot recoginize the beauty of Button's play, try some NL cash games. You will see it a lot.

[TomHimself]

if this were no limit it would be better, suited connectors lose value in limit

[tdarko]

i was the button and yes i do.

[betgo]

[ QUOTE ]
What a nice play by the Button.
If you cannot recoginize the beauty of Button's play, try some NL cash games. You will see it a lot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is it that great to 3-bet with 54s with an early position raise and cold caller? With the pot that big and atleast 2 other players, it may not be easy to steal the pot by representing something. You may not get payed off enough if you hit. When he 3-bet, there was a pretty good chance, I would cap, since I could easily have AK or QQ-AA. 54s is not considered real strong in limit and is ranked level 6 by Sklansky. I know villain has positionI can see some point to the play, but it is hardly standard.

This is not a low limit cash game and I would not reraise an early position raiser from the button with 54s in a no limit cash game either.

I would play the cards all day long, but I would just call with thm, and close the action. Of course, I wouldn't be that liberal with ako either, but who knows...

[ononimo]

never say never -- it's important to vary one's play. maybe this guy plays this way all the time or maybe he decided he'd do something different just to throw people off and got lucky.

did he get paid off? yes. did he probably put you on at least a mini-tilt? i'm guessing he did. are you more likely to assume that he's always raising with weak hands and therefore pay off his future monsters? probably.

looks like he plays g00t.

I don't understand this at all.

[ononimo]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't understand this at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

let's start slow: do you understand why you shouldn't play predictably?

[ QUOTE ]
let's start slow: do you understand why you shouldn't spew chips?

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP.

Its limit and he's 3-betting with a baby suited connector. I'm totally missing something here.

[ononimo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
let's start slow: do you understand why you shouldn't spew chips?

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP.

[/ QUOTE ]

spewing? should the button have just folded preflop? assuming you deem it ok for him to see the flop given his position ... is there THAT big of a difference between calling 2-bets vs. putting in one extra bet and potentially putting everyone else in the hand on their heels for at least one round of betting?

i'm not advocating this play 100% of the time but i do see it as a valid way of varying one's play, particularly in light of his position.

Fair enough.

[TomHimself]

[ QUOTE ]
I would play the cards all day long, but I would just call with thm, and close the action. Of course, I wouldn't be that liberal with ako either, but who knows...

[/ QUOTE ]you dont cap AK preflop?

[Arnfinn Madsen]

Given the right table conditions I would do this play in limit, but only if I would be sure that the two opponents would "understand" the strength of my hand when I 3-bet into a raiser and cold caller. Either he had good enough read or he was lucky. Remember that your play can be a steal with crap if he has noticed that you have noticed that the BB is very tight. If he has noticed that the cold caller has noticed that you steal from this BB-guy a lot he can think that the CO gets angry about your steals (since it destroys his ability to steal) and thus button might think that CO might cold call with a mediocre hand using position against you.

[benfranklin]

[ QUOTE ]


let's start slow: do you understand why you shouldn't play predictably?

[/ QUOTE ]

You should not play predictably if your opponents are sentient, and if there is the slightest possibility that they have an attention span of more than a nanosecond.

What does this have to do with Party tournaments?

[ QUOTE ]
What does this have to do with Party tournaments?

[/ QUOTE ]

nh.

[ansky451]

Betgo! Do I detect a bad beat post...?

[ononimo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


let's start slow: do you understand why you shouldn't play predictably?

[/ QUOTE ]

You should not play predictably if your opponents are sentient, and if there is the slightest possibility that they have an attention span of more than a nanosecond.

What does this have to do with Party tournaments?

[/ QUOTE ]

fair enough but that reminds me of another point ... this occurred very early in the tournament when it was relatively cheap for the button to pull off a play like this.

assuming that his opponents are sentient beings (big assumption, granted) and the table doesn't break for a while (a decent assumption in a limit tourney), i think the risk/reward ratio for this play is pretty good if it leads to getting monsters paid off down the line when the limits are higher and pots are larger.

Limit makes me gag. This is a bad thing.

[Toro]

You know, you don't always have to hit the garbage hands to win, don't you?

I made this play at Foxwoods 10/20 against a tough player who is not easily bluffed. Everyone calls him Judge because he's a retired judge. He raised and I 3 bet with 78s. The flop came AAQ and he checked to me and I bet and he called. The turn was a 3 and he checked and I got stubborn and kept up the charade and bet and he called again.

The River was another Q and he checked again and I was sick to my stomach knowing that my only chance to win was to waste another $20 so I bet the River and he disgustedly flashed JJ to his friend and sarcastically said "nice board for JJ" and to me "were you full?" and of course I nodded yes.

Not telling anyone anything new here but deception is a part of the game.

[Arnfinn Madsen]

[ QUOTE ]
Not telling anyone anything new here but deception is a part of the game.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know that you know it at least /images/graemlins/smile.gif. I was leading a limit tourney feeling I was the clearly best player until I was moved to a table where this damned Toro-guy /images/graemlins/tongue.gif, sat two seats left to me and literally outplayed me putting me on semi-tilt. I felt totally confused as to which hands you had, all the time.

[BettyBoopAA]

Quote:
You know, you don't always have to hit the garbage hands to win, don't you?
On Party in Limit Hold em you most certainly do.

[BAD BEAT POLICE]

HI! PEOPLE HAVE TWO REACTIONS TO YOUR BAD BEAT POSTS:

1. THEY DON'T CARE.

2. THEY ARE GLAD IT HAPPENED.

BETGO, DID YOU HONESTLY THINK THERE WAS SOME VALUE TO THIS BAD BEAT POST?

-BBP

[BAD BEAT POLICE]

[ QUOTE ]
I made a very similar play in a home game last week. But my opponent had KK and I got paid off even better.

[/ QUOTE ]

DELIVERING BAD BEATS IS NOT A "PLAY", IT IS POOR POKER.

THANK YOU! COME AGAIN!

[betgo]

[ QUOTE ]
You know, you don't always have to hit the garbage hands to win, don't you?
On Party in Limit Hold em you most certainly do.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe in 50/$1, but not necessarily in a tournament, although the play was pretty loose at this point and this is only a $50 MTT. Getting two players to fold, though would not be easy and would require come more chips.

I think villain's checking the flop from the was bad. Having capped preflop, I wan't going to fold to one bet. I think he would be better off building the pot for various reasons.

He did create maximum deception. With the flop check and the raises on the turn and river, I was putting him on AA, AK, or AQ.

As for raise, since he is calling anyway, I don't think a call is that clear with 54s on the button with a 3rd position raise and CO call.

I think the reraise with 54s would have been better against one player. Against two players, he is getting better implied odds to hit something, but your chances to steal the pot are much smaller.

Sklansky in HPFAP recommends throwing in early position raises with suited connectors if your early position raises are getting too much respect. In a lot of limit holdem games, an UTG raise is assumed to be AK or QQ-AA and often picks up the blinds or gets called by the BB, who folds on the flop. I find that kind of play can create a lot of deception.

[CardSharpCook]

3betting 45s to get HU is acceptable, but still pretty bad. With a raise and a call, it is just plain chip-spewing.

[betgo]

[ QUOTE ]
HI! PEOPLE HAVE TWO REACTIONS TO YOUR BAD BEAT POSTS:

1. THEY DON'T CARE.

2. THEY ARE GLAD IT HAPPENED.

BETGO, DID YOU HONESTLY THINK THERE WAS SOME VALUE TO THIS BAD BEAT POST?

-BBP

[/ QUOTE ]

Who gave you your badge?

I don't think it is that much of a bad beat. AKo is only 3-2 against 54s and TPTK is not a lock on the turn or river.

I just posted it because I thought it was amusing. However, it has created a lot of interesting discussion about my opponent's play.

[ononimo]

[ QUOTE ]
3betting 45s to get HU is acceptable, but still pretty bad. With a raise and a call, it is just plain chip-spewing.

[/ QUOTE ]

there must be something to be said for context: the big blind is T20. the button begins the hand with T1670. the "chip spewing" 3-bet cost him a little more than 1% of his stack.

[betgo]

[ QUOTE ]
there must be something to be said for context: the big blind is T20. the button begins the hand with T1670. the "chip spewing" 3-bet cost him a little more than 1% of his stack.

[/ QUOTE ]

The 4 bets preflop costs 5% of his stack. Add this to one bet each on later streets, you are in for 11% of your stack. I don't know if it is necessarily good to play loose just because the stakes are low. I don't think flat calling a raise rather than folding is automatic with 54s.

[ononimo]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know if it is necessarily good to play loose just because the stakes are low. I don't think flat calling a raise rather than folding is automatic with 54s.

[/ QUOTE ]

i think this point only has some merit because it's limit poker and the implied odds aren't as large as with no-limit. and i never said it was automatic, either ... i said it's a way of varying your play (which means it's different than what you normally do).

in this example, however, don't talk about the bets on the later streets -- do you really think he would have made it to the turn, much less the river, if he hadn't hit the flop hard? if paint hits the flop and either you or the CO bet, do you think he calls or raises? in this particular hand, he didn't put in one extra bet post-flop until he had you crushed.

[betgo]

[ QUOTE ]
two of the 4 pre-flop bets are irrelevant unless you are arguing that he shouldn't have even called off 2% of his stack preflop with live suited connectors and the button. so let's say he put in an extra 3% preflop that you wouldn't have otherwise done.

[/ QUOTE ]

In limit % of stack called with a suited connector is irrelevant unless you will be put allin before the hand is over. There is no way you can take someone's whole stack if you make a straight or something.

Calling a raise preflop with this kind of hand is not the standard play, according to Sklansky, Miller, Harmon, etc.

[ononimo]

[ QUOTE ]
Calling a raise preflop with this kind of hand is not the standard play, according to Sklansky, Miller, Harmon, etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

yes, yes, YES! i agree! hence the whole "varying your play" concept ... never argued its validity as a standard line, simply as a means of deception.

[Toro]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I made a very similar play in a home game last week. But my opponent had KK and I got paid off even better.

[/ QUOTE ]

DELIVERING BAD BEATS IS NOT A "PLAY", IT IS POOR POKER.

THANK YOU! COME AGAIN!

[/ QUOTE ]

With all due respect officer, you do realize that a poker hand contains 5 cards and not 2.