Whats the best way to read women?

[SNOWBALL138]

Ok, this is my first non-poker post to the psych forum.

I go to a college with 30k or so students, and I happen to sit next to probably the cutest girl on campus. I'm trying to figure out if she likes me or not. Its very very hard for me to tell these things, because I get a lot of false positives, and hopefully some false negatives in my overall experience with women.

Here are my clues:

Favorable:

1. She goes out of her way to compliment me on various things. "This stuff is easy for you because you're smart"
"I'm so glad we ended up sitting next to eachother"
"Its almost like you're already a lawyer"
"Its cute the way you do that"
"I'm really happy that I have a friend in the class"
"Your hair looks good. Did you get a haircut?"

2. She laughs at my jokes

3. She smiles at me a lot

4. She keeps trying to make plans that involve me
"I really want to learn latin. We should take latin together!"

"We need to study together"

"You should teach me how to play poker. Do you think I'll be good?"

Or, she'll ask me if I like horror movies and then she'll mention that one is playing...

5. She started initiating and giving me hugs whenever she says goodbye now.
I don't know if this part is favorable or unfavorable actually, because maybe if she liked me she would be too uncomfortable to hug me?

6. She offered to "heal" my stomache ache.
She's into yoga and stuff like that and told me she would do healing work on my stomache problems. I don't believe in stuff like this, but its a pretty nice thought, like when you know someone is keeping you in their prayers or rooting for you to win a hand or something.

7. We both like folk music and country music.
Who in LA likes folk and country? I'm not saying we're "made for eachother" because I don't believe in stuff like that, but I do think that when two people share odd tastes its more favorable than when two people share typical tastes.

8. We seem to have similarly left-wing politics.
Its usually a good thing when two people have common values. If nothing else, it makes for good conversation and less awkward situations when election season comes around.

9. She bought me coffee one time

10. She said "I love you" in a girly way when I gave her this burnt cd. Then she said she'd buy me something while she's away on her vacation.

11. She asked me for my phone number w/in the first few classes

Unfavorable:

1. I aked her to a halloween party, and she told me she had some friends in town and was doing something else, but that I should give her the address and she might stop by...

This is hard for me to evaluate because her excuse might be true.

2. She is 26 and I am 21.
This is pretty unfavorable just by itself. Most women I know like older guys.

3. She's so much hotter than I am its ridiculous.
I'm very thin, and not at all muscular. I'm probably 130 pounds soaking wet. I have brown hair, and I am only 5 foot 10 1/2. Also, I have a very fair complexion. I think most women like tall guys with medium builds with blonde hair and a tan, sooooo in other words, I'm NOT exactly what women want.
This doesn't mean I haven't been with attractive women before, but it does mean that I'm not what someone would call a hottie.

4. We live sort of far apart. Sure, we're both in LA, but its a big city, and driving sucks.

Anyway, I'm not sure how to read her. What other clues should I pay attention to that I'm missing. I've been sitting next to her for maybe 3 months now, so I've had a lot of time to size things up. Shouldn't I know by now one way or the other?

Thanks,
Snowball

I would ask her out for any one of these multiple reasons that you've stated above.

honestly, she's thrown every hint at you, and she's probably frustrated taht you "don't get it".

if it does work out for you, you should mention that you were trying to figure it out, they usually find it cute.

absolutely go for it.

p.s. this advice is also coming from my girlfriend, who is now saying she threw alot of these same hints at me and finally broke down and asked me out... apparently Im too stupid.

oh and a good way to go about this is find an easy way to give her your number, it puts the ball in her court.

[poker-penguin]

I usually require a girl to say "listen dumbass, I like you" before I'm sure. However, I think even I could have worked out by now that asking her for dinner or whatever would probably be successful.

Another positive sign is if she hasn't dropped "my boyfriend" into any conversations yet - many girls find ways of doing this to warn guys off without doing it directly.

[SNOWBALL138]

[ QUOTE ]

I usually require a girl to say "listen dumbass, I like you" before I'm sure. However, I think even I could have worked out by now that asking her for dinner or whatever would probably be successful.

[/ QUOTE ]

Before I do anything, I think I need to read Sklansky's new book on picking up chicks. I hear he gets more 23 year old girls than Daniel Negraneau.

[4_2_it]

Dude, why do you want to fold AA pre-flop? Sure, they may get cracked, but you've to get your money in the middle when you are ahead.

Just realized I posted this to the wrong thread, but after further review it probably still applies. Stop being a pansy and ask her out.

What is the worst thing can happen? She will politely decline.

[KSOT]

Sounds to me like she despises you.

[REL18]

When i think of this post even though what u describe is not this www.factualmaterial.com/douchebag.htm (http://www.factualmaterial.com/douchebag.htm) it is you in essence what kind of retarded face are u. why would u not just ask her out to dinner and take it from there u seem like degenerate scum 3 months lol 3 weeks is suicde try 3 days

[runout_mick]

Seriously, dude, the only risks I regret in my life are those I didn't take (few and far between they may be). Take a chance. Worst case is that you misinterpreted her signals and get shot down. Big deal. You think that'll break you? No way, it'll make you stronger, and NEXT time you're in this situation you'll have more confidence to give it another shot (and hopefully not wait so long, cuz you may have waited so long you're slipping into "friend" status).

Do it do it doitdoitdoit

do it

[KaneKungFu123]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, this is my first non-poker post to the psych forum.

I go to a college with 30k or so students, and I happen to sit next to probably the cutest girl on campus. I'm trying to figure out if she likes me or not. Its very very hard for me to tell these things, because I get a lot of false positives, and hopefully some false negatives in my overall experience with women.


[/ QUOTE ]

I stopped reading here. She doesnt like you.

[David Sklansky]

I'd say you are 70%. My only concern is negative #3. That makes me worry that she falls in the category of what you might call "movie star niceness" (I just coined that phrase)where she takes it upon herself to make guys out of her league feel good about the attention she gives them, never considering that they may start to think they have a chance with her. If that's the case you are drawing dead. But you'll find out almost instantly so it won't be a prolonged ordeal.

[partygirluk]

It seems that she likes you a lot. Also she comes across as a total bimbo, so losing her friendship is no big deal. Just ask her out on a date and take it from there.

[SheetWise]

[ QUOTE ]
Anyway, I'm not sure how to read her. What other clues should I pay attention to that I'm missing.

[/ QUOTE ]
WOmen are a lot like poker opponents. Pay little or no attention to what they say -- they are defined by what they do.

I think this situation clearly calls for a value bet, then adjust your game according to what she does.

You have no way of knowing it, but I've been laffin' my butt off! You, IMO, have waaaaaaaay too many "self esteem problems." <------ pop psych, I know, I know! But it does seem appropriate here.

Quit putting yourself down and start makin' a play. Some women DO NOT give a rat's ass about 70% of what us guys think they're concerned with. She's ONLY five years older. Up until I was in my late 30's the best I ever had was always at least 10 years older. (topic for a whole other thread)

Now, you DO know we're gunna expect updates, trip reports and PICS? Right?

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[revots33]

My wife of 3+ years is totally cute and way out of my league in the looks department. The world is full of ugly guys with good-looking girlfriends. Who knows what they see in us? She's giving you every hint in the book. At 26 she may be mature enough to not judge a guy based only on his looks. Go for it.

[felix83]

[ QUOTE ]
Dude, why do you want to fold AA pre-flop? Sure, they may get cracked, but you've to get your money in the middle when you are ahead.

Just realized I posted this to the wrong thread, but after further review it probably still applies. Stop being a pansy and ask her out.

[/ QUOTE ]

I love this place.

I like a stop and go here, of asking her to get together to study, and then pulling a move if the mood feels right. Late night, some textbooks, could work out nicely.

Snowball, keep us posted.

[Tilt]

[ QUOTE ]


1. She goes out of her way to compliment me on various things. "This stuff is easy for you because you're smart"
"I'm so glad we ended up sitting next to eachother"
"Its almost like you're already a lawyer"
"Its cute the way you do that"
"I'm really happy that I have a friend in the class"
"Your hair looks good. Did you get a haircut?"
2. She laughs at my jokes
3. She smiles at me a lot
4. She keeps trying to make plans that involve me
"I really want to learn latin. We should take latin together!"
"We need to study together"
"You should teach me how to play poker. Do you think I'll be good?"
Or, she'll ask me if I like horror movies and then she'll mention that one is playing...
5. She started initiating and giving me hugs whenever she says goodbye now.
6. She offered to "heal" my stomache ache.
She's into yoga and stuff like that and told me she would do healing work on my stomache problems. I don't believe in stuff like this, but its a pretty nice thought, like when you know someone is keeping you in their prayers or rooting for you to win a hand or something.
10. She said "I love you" in a girly way when I gave her this burnt cd. Then she said she'd buy me something while she's away on her vacation.
11. She asked me for my phone number w/in the first few classes


[/ QUOTE ]

If you don't as her out after all these hints, who will you ask out????

Based on this list of clues, you should just make a pass at her rather than ask her out. Try it while she's "healing your stomach".

[Autocratic]

You guys are taking those "hints" a little too seriously. There's a good chance that she likes you. There's also a good chance she considers you a good guy and would NEVER date you.

No matter how many signals you're getting, remember one thing: women are [censored] crazy.

based on the positives and your self image, it seems like she is a overly flirtatious girl who enjoys having the upper hand and control over a self conscious guy. why do girls sometimes do this? because they can. to see if she is genuine with her comments, see how she interacts with other guys. is she the same way, or are you special?
it's possible that she does find you attractive, but she may feel like you are too thick to ask her out. wait too long and the opportunity will slip away.
the negatives didn't seem too bad, still possible.
good luck

You're probably ahead, but she could be using you:
[ QUOTE ]
"This stuff is easy for you because you're smart"
"I'm so glad we ended up sitting next to eachother"
"Its almost like you're already a lawyer"
"Its cute the way you do that"
"I'm really happy that I have a friend in the class"


[/ QUOTE ]

Justgo ahead and pull you wanker out...if she blows you it is safe to assume that she wants to go out with you!

[Jeffage]

All signs point to yes, but I suck with women also so I'd probably post about it rather than actually ask her out. That's me though...I say you can do better and actually go out on a date with her. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

Jeff

[LearnedfromTV]

You're thinking too hard. Do some pushups before class and ask her out.

P.S. Even though she is older, you are on the same level in school. It's not like you're in college and she's a doctor. Besides, older women rule, and they do like younger guys, if you have your [censored] together.

Best way to read women?

In Braille.

/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[krubban]

She's giving you a lot of signals and if you don't act on them soon she will put you in the "wuss" category and chicks don't want a wussyboy.
Try putting it into your head that you're not the lucky one because she's interested, you're the prize and she will have to work for it.

Do not go out and buy her dinner as that's wussy too, she'll just think that you want to buy her, instead suggest that she should come along with you and do something not related to school.
For example say "hey (hot chick), I'm going to this new flying aquarium (or whatever) downtown, you should tag along, it will be fun."
If she's interested she'll bite and if not there's plenty more fish in the sea. Seems like you get along together so keep it up and don't start acting needy and calling her 10 times a day in case it starts to work your way. Girls don't like needy guys either, just keep teasing her so she doesn't really know where she has you.
Just think about how good you can make her feel and not the other way around.

[ QUOTE ]
She's giving you a lot of signals and if you don't act on them soon she will put you in the "wuss" category and chicks don't want a wussyboy.
Try putting it into your head that you're not the lucky one because she's interested, you're the prize and she will have to work for it.

Do not go out and buy her dinner as that's wussy too, she'll just think that you want to buy her, instead suggest that she should come along with you and do something not related to school.
For example say "hey (hot chick), I'm going to this new flying aquarium (or whatever) downtown, you should tag along, it will be fun."
If she's interested she'll bite and if not there's plenty more fish in the sea. Seems like you get along together so keep it up and don't start acting needy and calling her 10 times a day in case it starts to work your way. Girls don't like needy guys either, just keep teasing her so she doesn't really know where she has you.
Just think about how good you can make her feel and not the other way around.

[/ QUOTE ]

Honestly, I think this is absolutely terrible advice.

I agree that you don't want to seem needy, but most women prefer a man who is open and upfront and honest.

I would ask her out for dinner - there is no ambiguity about dinner - it is a date. All this "oh...you know...whatever...I'm too good for you" BS This may get you laid, but its not the way you start off with a woman if you want anything more than a romp in the hay.

[krubban]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
She's giving you a lot of signals and if you don't act on them soon she will put you in the "wuss" category and chicks don't want a wussyboy.
Try putting it into your head that you're not the lucky one because she's interested, you're the prize and she will have to work for it.

Do not go out and buy her dinner as that's wussy too, she'll just think that you want to buy her, instead suggest that she should come along with you and do something not related to school.
For example say "hey (hot chick), I'm going to this new flying aquarium (or whatever) downtown, you should tag along, it will be fun."
If she's interested she'll bite and if not there's plenty more fish in the sea. Seems like you get along together so keep it up and don't start acting needy and calling her 10 times a day in case it starts to work your way. Girls don't like needy guys either, just keep teasing her so she doesn't really know where she has you.
Just think about how good you can make her feel and not the other way around.

[/ QUOTE ]

Honestly, I think this is absolutely terrible advice.

I agree that you don't want to seem needy, but most women prefer a man who is open and upfront and honest.

I would ask her out for dinner - there is no ambiguity about dinner - it is a date. All this "oh...you know...whatever...I'm too good for you" BS This may get you laid, but its not the way you start off with a woman if you want anything more than a romp in the hay.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not saying that you should act like a jerk, I'm saying that you should not act like she's some divine creature.
I'm not saying you should be dishonest either, where did you get that from?
This whole "asking for a date" also puts alot of pressure in the situation where as going out for just a coffee or for a walk is more neutral, the goal should be to have fun and not trying to be romantic the first date.

People want what they can't have so you should definitely NOT start opening up your heart and telling her what you feel for her in the beginning, that's a sure fire way to get her running for the hills unless she's insecure or you're Brad Pitt.
Her excitement comes from not knowing what comes next and if you tell her right away that you like her and will do anything for her she'll lose all that excitement and can just take you for granted.

If i can play with what you're writing too, about being totally upfront and honest I suppose you're suggesting he'll go to her and say "You're beautiful, I want to have sex with you."
That way of being honest won't get you very far now will it?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
She's giving you a lot of signals and if you don't act on them soon she will put you in the "wuss" category and chicks don't want a wussyboy.
Try putting it into your head that you're not the lucky one because she's interested, you're the prize and she will have to work for it.

Do not go out and buy her dinner as that's wussy too, she'll just think that you want to buy her, instead suggest that she should come along with you and do something not related to school.
For example say "hey (hot chick), I'm going to this new flying aquarium (or whatever) downtown, you should tag along, it will be fun."
If she's interested she'll bite and if not there's plenty more fish in the sea. Seems like you get along together so keep it up and don't start acting needy and calling her 10 times a day in case it starts to work your way. Girls don't like needy guys either, just keep teasing her so she doesn't really know where she has you.
Just think about how good you can make her feel and not the other way around.

[/ QUOTE ]

Honestly, I think this is absolutely terrible advice.

I agree that you don't want to seem needy, but most women prefer a man who is open and upfront and honest.

I would ask her out for dinner - there is no ambiguity about dinner - it is a date. All this "oh...you know...whatever...I'm too good for you" BS This may get you laid, but its not the way you start off with a woman if you want anything more than a romp in the hay.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not saying that you should act like a jerk, I'm saying that you should not act like she's some divine creature.
I'm not saying you should be dishonest either, where did you get that from?
This whole "asking for a date" also puts alot of pressure in the situation where as going out for just a coffee or for a walk is more neutral, the goal should be to have fun and not trying to be romantic the first date.

People want what they can't have so you should definitely NOT start opening up your heart and telling her what you feel for her in the beginning, that's a sure fire way to get her running for the hills unless she's insecure or you're Brad Pitt.
Her excitement comes from not knowing what comes next and if you tell her right away that you like her and will do anything for her she'll lose all that excitement and can just take you for granted.

If i can play with what you're writing too, about being totally upfront and honest I suppose you're suggesting he'll go to her and say "You're beautiful, I want to have sex with you."
That way of being honest won't get you very far now will it?

[/ QUOTE ]

You are right - and I apologize for misinterpreting your advice - I just hear it a lot from guys that you have to act all cool and aloof - and my experience is that such an approach only works with skanky women or women with poor self-esteem.

I am not talking about being overly romantic - but as much as women don't like it when men seem needy or pushy, they also DO like it when men are direct and ask for what they want - this is one of the biggest differences you see in women as you get older. College is sort of a middle ground, so its hard to tell what kind of woman this is.

Most women I know - and knew in college - would respect a man who said to her "would you like to go out for dinner this weekend?" rather than trying to act all coy. When you ask for that, you are telling the woman that you want to spend an evening with her and her alone - that makes her feel wanted and makes her feel special - and that is what women want to feel.

[idrinkcoors]

Snowball,
I'm no dating expert. I'm just speaking from a guy similar to you who married WAAAY above him in the looks department.
She wants you.
Every sign is there. Having said that, don't blow it. By that, I mean don't get too excited after your great first date. Don't call her right away. Wait for three days, like the guy in the movie "Swingers." Every girl says that they want a guy who doesn't play games, but play games. Trust me. Play hard to get. She'll like you more.

Lastly, you asked how else to read a woman: if she touches her hair a lot when you are talking, she likes you.

Good luck.

[bb88]

The problem with women is that they aren't nice, readable TAGS. They are incredible maniacs, going all-in with 2-3 not suited and folding AA preflop when it's that time of the month.

I'd just ask her out. The only thing you can be positive of is that she doesn't hate you, so she'll at least be nice if she rejects you. I'd put you as a 66% favorite to get a date.

[4_2_it]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd say you are 70%. My only concern is negative #3. That makes me worry that she falls in the category of what you might call "movie star niceness" (I just coined that phrase)where she takes it upon herself to make guys out of her league feel good about the attention she gives them, never considering that they may start to think they have a chance with her. If that's the case you are drawing dead. But you'll find out almost instantly so it won't be a prolonged ordeal.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is gold! Will the 2+2 Guide to Dating Hot Older Women be published before or after your NL tour'de force?

[felix83]

[ QUOTE ]
I am not talking about being overly romantic - but as much as women don't like it when men seem needy or pushy, they also DO like it when men are direct and ask for what they want - this is one of the biggest differences you see in women as you get older.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've started to see how important the balance is between cockiness and confidence. It's a hard one to walk but is very key, I think, to success in these endeavours. I used to either play it cool and stupid, or be overly romantic right away and scare girls away (or attract the crazy ones). I just recently got up the cojones to finally just ask a girl if she wanted to go out that weekend. To my surprise, it actually worked. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd say you are 70%. My only concern is negative #3. That makes me worry that she falls in the category of what you might call "movie star niceness" (I just coined that phrase)where she takes it upon herself to make guys out of her league feel good about the attention she gives them, never considering that they may start to think they have a chance with her. If that's the case you are drawing dead. But you'll find out almost instantly so it won't be a prolonged ordeal.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is gold! Will the 2+2 Guide to Dating Hot Older Women be published before or after your NL tour'de force?

[/ QUOTE ]

suckup










j/k

[krubban]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
She's giving you a lot of signals and if you don't act on them soon she will put you in the "wuss" category and chicks don't want a wussyboy.
Try putting it into your head that you're not the lucky one because she's interested, you're the prize and she will have to work for it.

Do not go out and buy her dinner as that's wussy too, she'll just think that you want to buy her, instead suggest that she should come along with you and do something not related to school.
For example say "hey (hot chick), I'm going to this new flying aquarium (or whatever) downtown, you should tag along, it will be fun."
If she's interested she'll bite and if not there's plenty more fish in the sea. Seems like you get along together so keep it up and don't start acting needy and calling her 10 times a day in case it starts to work your way. Girls don't like needy guys either, just keep teasing her so she doesn't really know where she has you.
Just think about how good you can make her feel and not the other way around.

[/ QUOTE ]

Honestly, I think this is absolutely terrible advice.

I agree that you don't want to seem needy, but most women prefer a man who is open and upfront and honest.

I would ask her out for dinner - there is no ambiguity about dinner - it is a date. All this "oh...you know...whatever...I'm too good for you" BS This may get you laid, but its not the way you start off with a woman if you want anything more than a romp in the hay.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not saying that you should act like a jerk, I'm saying that you should not act like she's some divine creature.
I'm not saying you should be dishonest either, where did you get that from?
This whole "asking for a date" also puts alot of pressure in the situation where as going out for just a coffee or for a walk is more neutral, the goal should be to have fun and not trying to be romantic the first date.

People want what they can't have so you should definitely NOT start opening up your heart and telling her what you feel for her in the beginning, that's a sure fire way to get her running for the hills unless she's insecure or you're Brad Pitt.
Her excitement comes from not knowing what comes next and if you tell her right away that you like her and will do anything for her she'll lose all that excitement and can just take you for granted.

If i can play with what you're writing too, about being totally upfront and honest I suppose you're suggesting he'll go to her and say "You're beautiful, I want to have sex with you."
That way of being honest won't get you very far now will it?

[/ QUOTE ]

You are right - and I apologize for misinterpreting your advice - I just hear it a lot from guys that you have to act all cool and aloof - and my experience is that such an approach only works with skanky women or women with poor self-esteem.

I am not talking about being overly romantic - but as much as women don't like it when men seem needy or pushy, they also DO like it when men are direct and ask for what they want - this is one of the biggest differences you see in women as you get older. College is sort of a middle ground, so its hard to tell what kind of woman this is.

Most women I know - and knew in college - would respect a man who said to her "would you like to go out for dinner this weekend?" rather than trying to act all coy. When you ask for that, you are telling the woman that you want to spend an evening with her and her alone - that makes her feel wanted and makes her feel special - and that is what women want to feel.

[/ QUOTE ]

We might be on the same page after all, I meant to include what you said about knowing what you want too. Being a man who knows what he wants and how to get it is very attractive to women, alot of this depends on your self esteem though.
I think that when you ask her to do something don't act like you're lucky to even be in her presence. Instead see it as an opportunity for the both of you to have a good time together. This sends all the right messages, that you're confident, know what you want and are not afraid of her because she happens to be so good looking.

[AJo Go All In]

great call, that is exactly what i was thinking

[ QUOTE ]
great call, that is exactly what i was thinking

[/ QUOTE ]

Am I seeing a trend here?

/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[DarrenX]

I hate to say it, but I'm pretty sure you're in the 'friend zone'. All the 'positives' you listed definitely make me think she likes you, but there's a HUGE difference between her liking you as a friend and getting her back to your dorm room to do a little hibbidy-dibbity ifyouknowwhati'msayin'andithinkyoudo.

On the other hand, I don't think it's hopeless. The 'negatives' you listed don't really seem to be negatives to me. Here's a few 'key tells' I'd look for:

1) from a previous poster, if she EVER brings up a boyfriend, no-go (duh /images/graemlins/tongue.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif).

2) Casual physical contact. If a female is interested, she'll tend to engage in physical contact, just as she may have done in grade school- a playful shove, a touch on the arm while talking, stuff like that. I know you mentioned hugs, but that could go either way, as you pointed out.

3) Weekend nights- what is she doing? Is she asking you what you're doing? If you haven't discussed it, it's a sign that either she doesn't want to take it to the next level, or she wants YOU to do it. As cliche/old-fashioned as it may sound, women like men who have the confidence to make the first move.

Do you have any mutual friends? If so, see if they have a read on the situation. It usually seems a lot more clear to an observer what's up. If no mutual friends, anyone that may be able to observe you two "in play" so to speak...

Do you drink? Does she? Just as in poker, tells become more prominent when people drink. Not saying get her drunk, but a couple to loosen her (and you) up may get you moving in the right direction.

This is starting to turn into an advice on how to succeed with women, when all you asked for is a way to read the signals. From my vantage point, I'd say she's not currently interested as more than a friend, but it's not to say that she can't be. Good luck.

Just whip it out already, are you retarded?

[SNOWBALL138]

[ QUOTE ]
Just whip it out already, are you retarded?

[/ QUOTE ]

The thought had crossed my mind, until I read this (http://www.jaypinkerton.com/blog/archives/001343.html) story about a man who tried the same method, with unfavorable results.

[4_2_it]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
great call, that is exactly what i was thinking

[/ QUOTE ]

Am I seeing a trend here?

/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

My comment was intended to showcase my rapier wit.

Hey Snowball, sorry I forget to give you the collective wisdom of OOT: Get drunk, call her.

[vexvelour]

I didn't read through the responses but it sounds like shes at least very interested in a friendship. Definetly make plans with her to get a beer, get coffee, study, blah blah, whatever.

Don't let age differences get you down. Plenty of people look past age and really don't even consider it when it comes down to it. Also, just because you think shes cuter than you, don't act shy or whatever. Just go for the gold dude.

Good luck! You seem like a nice, thoughtful guy on here. Glad you found a cute one.

[ QUOTE ]
I'd say you are 70%. My only concern is negative #3. That makes me worry that she falls in the category of what you might call "movie star niceness" (I just coined that phrase)where she takes it upon herself to make guys out of her league feel good about the attention she gives them, never considering that they may start to think they have a chance with her. If that's the case you are drawing dead. But you'll find out almost instantly so it won't be a prolonged ordeal.

[/ QUOTE ]

Drawing dead doesn't matter really since I think that chasing women is always a freeroll. I roll the dice and if it doesn't work I move on; nothing gained, nothing lost. (

(Well there are some situations that making this move is bad, but those are exceptions. But a school situation is not one of those bad situations.)

Many women like "confident guys" that take the initiative. If you don't have the nards to do anything, then you won't get any respect. Show her your nuts and be a man. (Har dee har har. Sorry lame poker joke.) Men have to deal with rejection and the "pain" is very temporary, if you feel any in the first place. I don't.

I'm generally an aggressive person and my only vice is chasing women. So that's my two cents. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[RRRRICK]

You need to have crack.

I think from what you say you're a big chance.

Don't worry about being wrong and ruining the friendship.

You like her so it will get ruined one way or another, so have a go!!!!!

[SNOWBALL138]

[ QUOTE ]
You need to have crack.


[/ QUOTE ]

I had to think about this sentence for a little while before it made sense to me.

Thanks

[Allinlife]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd say you are 70%. My only concern is negative #3. That makes me worry that she falls in the category of what you might call "movie star niceness" (I just coined that phrase)where she takes it upon herself to make guys out of her league feel good about the attention she gives them, never considering that they may start to think they have a chance with her. If that's the case you are drawing dead. But you'll find out almost instantly so it won't be a prolonged ordeal.

[/ QUOTE ]

so its +EV

ToP says you take the bet.

If he suspects she's about to reject him, he can always just quickly turn it around and reject her. I think that works, doesnt it?

[jzpiano14]

I say your going to be fine, so get going and ask her out. Keep us updated with the results

[angst]

Wow.

[SNOWBALL138]

I'll probably ask her out thursday. That way I can get a good read on her tomorrow, and then hit it out of the park after our end of the week exam. She's supposed to have a gift for me when she gets back from her vacation tomorrow. Also, if things go bad on thursday, I only have to survive for 24 hours or so before I have my friday afternoon therapy session. And thursday is sort of the end of the week for me so if necessary I can always crawl into a bottle of Grey Goose, or drag a friend to the strip club or some other lonely sicko guy activity.

[KaneKungFu123]

[ QUOTE ]
I'll probably ask her out thursday. That way I can get a good read on her tomorrow, and then hit it out of the park after our end of the week exam. She's supposed to have a gift for me when she gets back from her vacation tomorrow. Also, if things go bad on thursday, I only have to survive for 24 hours or so before I have my friday afternoon therapy session. And thursday is sort of the end of the week for me so if necessary I can always crawl into a bottle of Grey Goose, or drag a friend to the strip club or some other lonely sicko guy activity.

[/ QUOTE ]

If she doesnt dig you it isn't the end of the world. Are you scribbling her name on your notepad and flipping through Wedding Magazines? Lighten Up, there are plenty of girls.

[SNOWBALL138]

Well, this girl has all of the best qualities of my first and best girlfriend without any of the bad qualities and she's approximately 400 times hotter and twice as intelligent.

I need to stop building this up though. Two weeks ago, I didn't even like her. Then I realized that we had a lot more in common than I thought and that I should try to be more tolerant of her weird spiritual beliefs (I'm basically an atheist)

[ThaHero]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, this girl has all of the best qualities of my first and best girlfriend without any of the bad qualities and she's approximately 400 times hotter and twice as intelligent.

[/ QUOTE ]

Trust me, she has bad qualities, she just hasn't manifested them yet. ALL women have bad qualities.

Anyway, good luck, and BE SURE to post an update of Thursday, preferably with pics.

[ QUOTE ]
Well, this girl has all of the best qualities of my first and best girlfriend without any of the bad qualities and she's approximately 400 times hotter and twice as intelligent.

I need to stop building this up though. Two weeks ago, I didn't even like her. Then I realized that we had a lot more in common than I thought and that I should try to be more tolerant of her weird spiritual beliefs (I'm basically an atheist)

[/ QUOTE ]

This used to happen to me when I was younger. Upon deciding I may like a girl, I started adding convincing myself more and more of the fact. Especially if I got the impression she felt the same way about me.

But yeah, looks like you have it. I liked Sklansky's read, but give you more than 70%. Please don't work it up. Just casually ask her if she wants to see a movie with you some night, or if you can buy her dinner. Flirt with her a little. See how she reacts. Don't be too "nice" (never works). Don't let her know that you're this crazy about her.

[ QUOTE ]
I'll probably ask her out thursday.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wednesday is typically a better bet, as most people have made plans already by Thursday. And this is Halloween weekend so you might be in trouble in that respect. If she's genuinely busy, don't necessarily interpret it is her not liking you. Have a backup plan in case she is.

[felix83]

[ QUOTE ]
This used to happen to me when I was younger. Upon deciding I may like a girl, I started adding convincing myself more and more of the fact. Especially if I got the impression she felt the same way about me.


[/ QUOTE ]
Still happens to me. Don't get ahead of yourself, she'll sense it and get scared off. Keep things light. You don't know her well enough to guarantee how amazing she is, so until further notice just assume she's a nice girl that you might have some fun with. Repeat that in your head to keep your feet on the ground.

Ask her if she knows of any good Halloween parties this weekend. If she does she'll probably see if you want to go (considering her prior tells).

Sklansky might be right (I've known the type), but she may also want your dick.

Someone mentioned calling her drunk and talking to her. That play is so [censored] +EV that I've questioned my atheism about it because something so wonderful as alcohol must've been created by an intelligent, nay, the MOST intelligent designer.

[ QUOTE ]
I'll probably ask her out thursday. That way I can get a good read on her tomorrow, and then hit it out of the park after our end of the week exam. She's supposed to have a gift for me when she gets back from her vacation tomorrow. Also, if things go bad on thursday, I only have to survive for 24 hours or so before I have my friday afternoon therapy session. And thursday is sort of the end of the week for me so if necessary I can always crawl into a bottle of Grey Goose, or drag a friend to the strip club or some other lonely sicko guy activity.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude - no offense - but you sound kinda creepy here.

[marsvolta619]

you need to stop putting the pussy up on a pedestal

I read this and let me tell you something, you are in. Just stop being so passive and make a move already. Your gonna be screwin her within a week, if not, then your not the man.

[RRRRICK]

[ QUOTE ]
I'll probably ask her out thursday. That way I can get a good read on her tomorrow, and then hit it out of the park after our end of the week exam. She's supposed to have a gift for me when she gets back from her vacation tomorrow. Also, if things go bad on thursday, I only have to survive for 24 hours or so before I have my friday afternoon therapy session. And thursday is sort of the end of the week for me so if necessary I can always crawl into a bottle of Grey Goose, or drag a friend to the strip club or some other lonely sicko guy activity.

[/ QUOTE ]

If she read this she would probably run.

[MyTurn2Raise]

dude...you're most likely screwed due to your attitude. she likes you...go with it.

First, go to fastseduction.com and read through the 101. I've had to rescue many a friend from his pansyness and one-itis. Hammering them with the ideas from that site seems to help.

Face it, you're a stud, otherwise miss wonderful wouldn't be interested. Act like it.

[Harv72b]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, this girl seems to have all of the best qualities of my first and best girlfriend and I haven't noticed any of the bad qualities yet and she's approximately 400 times hotter and twice as intelligent.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP.

Not that I'm a pessimist in things like this, but your initial/early impression of someone is often much better than it is after some time. This is especially true when that someone is a member of the opposite sex, you're not currently involved with anyone, and she's hot. Don't build her up, for mulitple reasons: first, it will make it all the much harder/unnatural for you to make your move, second it will be a lot more difficult to take a possible rejection, and third it's very likely that she won't live up to your hopes and expectations. It's not unlike being dealt pocket aces--they look great & a part of you automatically assumes that you're going to win a nice pot, but you have to remind yourself that it's very possible that you'll lose the pot, or that you'll only succeed in stealing the blinds. And the more you build those aces up in your mind preflop, the more likely you're going to end up overplaying them postflop.

[ QUOTE ]
Two weeks ago, I didn't even like her. Then I realized that we had a lot more in common than I thought and that I should try to be more tolerant of her weird spiritual beliefs (I'm basically an atheist)

[/ QUOTE ]

A difference in religious views is a pretty big stumbling block in any relationship. It's not impossible to overcome (my parents are of different religions, and have been married for 35 years), but keep in mind that this is not likely to be the only difference of opinion/lifestyle that the two of you have. And yes, the age difference is troublesome.

And don't worry so much about your own appearance--I'm butt ugly and I've dated some very hot women in life. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[arod15]

I havent played with enough to know this for sure, but from my experience woman play more straighfoward, with less bluffing so approach them as a Taggish player and base you reads off of that....

[felix83]

[ QUOTE ]
It's not unlike being dealt pocket aces--they look great & a part of you automatically assumes that you're going to win a nice pot, but you have to remind yourself that it's very possible that you'll lose the pot, or that you'll only succeed in stealing the blinds. And the more you build those aces up in your mind preflop, the more likely you're going to end up overplaying them postflop.


[/ QUOTE ]

The brilliance of this analogy cannot be overstated. If I was 10% as thorough as Harv, in cards or in life, I'd be in much better shape. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[ QUOTE ]
If he suspects she's about to reject him, he can always just quickly turn it around and reject her. I think that works, doesnt it?

[/ QUOTE ]

I say go for it regardless of any suspicion. If he gets rejected, then he should simply not care about it. He'll have the rest of the quarter/semester to deal with her.

This sort of "rejecting her first" strategy is just a fragile ego talking. Maybe it works on some women...but experience tells me that women fear rejection and he'd lose any hope with her if he did this.

I was actually kidding, I guess I forgot to use enough sarcasm font.

I forgot to turn on the sarcasm mech in my robotic body. /images/graemlins/smile.gif Robot have hard time read sarcasm on word form.

[David Sklansky]

78%. Thinking more about her age. Unless she's unbelievable, she needs to prove her youth.

Betting $100, even money, you get there by Jan 1. Must reply BEFORE you ask her out.

[Darryl_P]

Wow, I can't believe I just read this entire thread. Must not be NBA season yet. Anyway dude, important thing you must know...

This girl likes you because she sees an opportunity to take control of your soul. Macho guys are a threat to her because they know (or even overestimate and take advantage of) their market value. From the sounds of it, you grossly underestimate your market value and certain women instantly recognize that and see it as a huge opportunity.

There is no doubt in my mind that you can score with her, but the question is at what price? Of course I don't mean $$$, but rather letting her manipulate you to satisfy her goals.

She doesn't know yet if she wants to have sex with you, but if you show interest she will start to test you a bit and play little games to test how much power she can get over you. If you respond in a way that makes her believe she will have a lot, then you will score.

Of course your troubles may only be beginning then because you will likely fall in love, knowing (or thinking) that you will not be able to get another similarly hot chick later, and so commitment after commitment will pile up, and when you finally come to your senses 10 years later (and she loses her hotness) it will be too late to do anything about it.

Recommended approach:

Dupe her into thinking she can control you by playing along in her games, then after you've scored, start acting aloof and disinterested. This will then put her to a decision, either outcome of which is beneficial to you...either she will lower her power demands and let you call the shots (which you should take full advantage of), or she will write you off as a jerk and look for another sucker to prey on. In this latter scenario you should be confident in knowing that it wouldn't have worked out anyway and it ended at the optimal time, ie. after you've scored but before you invested too much time and energy into her.

[popniklas]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Svar till:</font><hr />
Well, this girl has all of the best qualities of my first and best girlfriend without any of the bad qualities and she's approximately 400 times hotter and twice as intelligent.

I need to stop building this up though. Two weeks ago, I didn't even like her. Then I realized that we had a lot more in common than I thought and that I should try to be more tolerant of her weird spiritual beliefs (I'm basically an atheist)

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, you do. (I make that mistake all the time myself.) Anyways, good luck Snowball!

And by the way, don't take Sklansky's bet. Who would want to bet against Sklansky anyway?

[Paxosmotic]

[ QUOTE ]
70%... I just coined that phrase... drawing dead

[/ QUOTE ]
You gotta get out of the house once in a while.

[MaxPower]

I guarantee that she sees you as a nice guy and a "friend" and that she has no idea that you might be interpreting her behavior in any other way.

That is not to say that you have no shot, but whatever you do DO NOT let on that you are interested in her. If she wanted you she would let you know in no uncertain terms. She would defnitely show up for that party even if she didn't go with you.

Just do the friend thing and maybe something might happen spontaneously, but whatever you do, do not close up your other options. If anything, you should pursue as many other girls as possible.

[tdarko]

i started to read through some of the replies and there was too much poker analogy for me so i quit reading, if what i say has been said then [censored] you don't be gay with your responses.

it looks as if you are heading or already in friend zone, you need to ask her out before the "just friends" aspect of your relationship with her goes on any longer.

i am on the fence here. she may still like you as more than a friend and she may had liked to you before hand as more than a friend but your complacency made her think otherwise and she SETTLED for the second best thing with you and that is a friend. now there is only one way to find out.

the "favorable's" you mentioned could be construed as either way and the "unfavorable's" aren't even unfavorable, don't worry about age, location, and one missed party at age 21 (hopefully you are a normal college kid and not trying to marry her).

my advice, as probably said a dozen times, ask her out and ask her out with confidence and with intentions.

Ask her out on a date.

[Mac]

my line is: ask her out on Wednesday (I guess today) to dinner. Then your intentions are absolutely clear. If she waffles, she's not into you and is just a huge flirt. The main point to consider in all of this: YOGA CHICKS ARE EASY!!

stamp it - MAC

[Rduke55]

I'd guess you're good here.
Hurry though so you don't get in the friend zone.

[MaxPower]

[ QUOTE ]
I guarantee that she sees you as a nice guy and a "friend" and that she has no idea that you might be interpreting her behavior in any other way.

That is not to say that you have no shot, but whatever you do DO NOT let on that you are interested in her. If she wanted you she would let you know in no uncertain terms. She would defnitely show up for that party even if she didn't go with you.

Just do the friend thing and maybe something might happen spontaneously, but whatever you do, do not close up your other options. If anything, you should pursue as many other girls as possible.

[/ QUOTE ]

You know what. Ignore my post. Just take your shot.

don't show her your avatar /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[ QUOTE ]
don't show her your avatar /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Unless that's her.

[ QUOTE ]
Unless that's her.


[/ QUOTE ]

right /images/graemlins/grin.gif

a man of taste then /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[Luv2DriveTT]

It is unfortunately obvious that this is a poker forum, because the OP has gotten some horrible advice here. He is not as far ahead as many perceive him to be, just because he is in the race doesn't mean he is a favorite to win. From his post he looks as if he is an underdog.

From your description sounds like the girl likes you, but is not attracted to you. Her extra attention is her way of overcompensating the fact that she feels awkward about her interest in you, which can be used in your favor with the right training.

Hence I have decided to offer my services to the OP as a coach in the art of "love". Should he accept my offer, Sklansy's bet may have a positive expected value after all (I think the odds against SNOWBALL138 of 'getting there' by Jan 1 is around 7:1). I will provide one 1/2 hour coaching session via phone for free, additional increments of 15 minutes will be charged at a reasonable fee of $25 (I accept payments via Neteller) should the OP wish to receive additional direction.

I will not let SNOWBALL138, or 2+2 down should he accept my proposition. On that I guarantee or I promise to renounce my title at 2+2.

TT /images/graemlins/club.gif

[surfinillini]

if you don't ask her out you're obviously a butt pirate.

All this "I don't know if they like me [censored]"

took me 4 years to realize JUST ASK THEM OUT and you will find out.

You will also be surprised that a lot of "attractive" girls do not asked out that much so that's another reason to do so.

[ QUOTE ]
You are right - and I apologize for misinterpreting your advice - I just hear it a lot from guys that you have to act all cool and aloof - and my experience is that such an approach only works with skanky women or women with poor self-esteem.


[/ QUOTE ]

There the best kind ! ha ha only joe king.

But seriously Snowball you gotta be favourite here. As well as the touching of the hair thing (hers not yours /images/graemlins/laugh.gif ) look at her eyes when she talks to you, if the iris are a big round saucer shape preferably with a twinkle /images/graemlins/diamond.gif, thats an involuntary sign that can't be faked, a sure sign of attraction to you.

You're getting perilously close to the 'friends' stage so imminent action is needed m8.

ps. I'm a reasonably good looking guy that has trouble, so looks don't mean s*** - personality is by far the most important thing. Good luck and please keep us posted so I haven't wasted an hour of my life. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[James Boston]

[ QUOTE ]
78%. Thinking more about her age. Unless she's unbelievable, she needs to prove her youth.

Betting $100, even money, you get there by Jan 1. Must reply BEFORE you ask her out.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why are you betting in favor of a guy who controls the outcome of the bet?

[snoopdarr]

Indeed all this advice has been garbage. Everything you need to know is here:
http://www.intellectualwhores.com/masterladder.html

[SNOWBALL138]

He's betting because he knows that I don't care about the 100 dollars as much as I care about the girl.

[[censored]]

[ QUOTE ]
It is unfortunately obvious that this is a poker forum, because the OP has gotten some horrible advice here. He is not as far ahead as many perceive him to be, just because he is in the race doesn't mean he is a favorite to win. From his post he looks as if he is an underdog.

From your description sounds like the girl likes you, but is not attracted to you. Her extra attention is her way of overcompensating the fact that she feels awkward about her interest in you, which can be used in your favor with the right training.

Hence I have decided to offer my services to the OP as a coach in the art of "love". Should he accept my offer, Sklansy's bet may have a positive expected value after all (I think the odds against SNOWBALL138 of 'getting there' by Jan 1 is around 7:1). I will provide one 1/2 hour coaching session via phone for free, additional increments of 15 minutes will be charged at a reasonable fee of $25 (I accept payments via Neteller) should the OP wish to receive additional direction.

I will not let SNOWBALL138, or 2+2 down should he accept my proposition. On that I guarantee or I promise to renounce my title at 2+2.

TT /images/graemlins/club.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

you take walk-ins?

[LethalRose]

She is being way to damn nice to you, girls are not this obvious. I think she is doing all this because you guarantee her a good grade in class, I've done this to a MOS and it works perfectely. The fact shes out of your league (or at least you think so) makes it even easier for you.

If i were you id asked her straight up whats going on, be bold. You could throw it back on her and say something like "Look, I know you want me but you're being way to damn nice to me" you'll find out whats up pretty quick. If she says she doesnt have feelings for you change the subject instantly back to class or homework, whatever. She has hot friends who she probably wont mind setting you up with.

[4_2_it]

[ QUOTE ]
It is unfortunately obvious that this is a poker forum, because the OP has gotten some horrible advice here. He is not as far ahead as many perceive him to be, just because he is in the race doesn't mean he is a favorite to win. From his post he looks as if he is an underdog.

From your description sounds like the girl likes you, but is not attracted to you. Her extra attention is her way of overcompensating the fact that she feels awkward about her interest in you, which can be used in your favor with the right training.

Hence I have decided to offer my services to the OP as a coach in the art of "love". Should he accept my offer, Sklansy's bet may have a positive expected value after all (I think the odds against SNOWBALL138 of 'getting there' by Jan 1 is around 7:1). I will provide one 1/2 hour coaching session via phone for free, additional increments of 15 minutes will be charged at a reasonable fee of $25 (I accept payments via Neteller) should the OP wish to receive additional direction.

I will not let SNOWBALL138, or 2+2 down should he accept my proposition. On that I guarantee or I promise to renounce my title at 2+2.

TT /images/graemlins/club.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I want to see TT vs. Dom in an advice battle royal on this thread!!!!

[Luv2DriveTT]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It is unfortunately obvious that this is a poker forum, because the OP has gotten some horrible advice here. He is not as far ahead as many perceive him to be, just because he is in the race doesn't mean he is a favorite to win. From his post he looks as if he is an underdog.

From your description sounds like the girl likes you, but is not attracted to you. Her extra attention is her way of overcompensating the fact that she feels awkward about her interest in you, which can be used in your favor with the right training.

Hence I have decided to offer my services to the OP as a coach in the art of "love". Should he accept my offer, Sklansy's bet may have a positive expected value after all (I think the odds against SNOWBALL138 of 'getting there' by Jan 1 is around 7:1). I will provide one 1/2 hour coaching session via phone for free, additional increments of 15 minutes will be charged at a reasonable fee of $25 (I accept payments via Neteller) should the OP wish to receive additional direction.

I will not let SNOWBALL138, or 2+2 down should he accept my proposition. On that I guarantee or I promise to renounce my title at 2+2.

TT /images/graemlins/club.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

you take walk-ins?

[/ QUOTE ]

Advance appointment required. If I took walk-ins, oddball 2+2'ers would show up on a plane tomorrow. Not good...

TT /images/graemlins/club.gif

[James Boston]

[ QUOTE ]
He's betting because he knows that I don't care about the 100 dollars as much as I care about the girl.

[/ QUOTE ]

And I didn't think, after your rave review of her, that you would throw your chances to win 100 bucks. It just seemed like s strange bet. If he wants to motivate you, he should bet against you.

You're asking a bunch of poker dweebs for dating advice. That's your first problem. She's the hotest girl on campus, and you've described yourself as being pretty average. That's your second problem. She called you a "friend." That's your third and biggest problem.

You have absolutely no chance. I'd lay money on it.

The upside is, she's just a chick. Plenty more of 'em lying around. Don't sweat it or put her up on a pedestal. They all start to piss you off after awhile anyway.

And even though I'm positive she'll say no, I'd ask her out anyway for two reasons: 1. You just gotta know. 2. It's good practice asking hot chicks out. Ask as many of them out as possible and be fearless about it. Even average guys score hot ones every now and then.

[David Sklansky]

"She's the hotest girl on campus, and you've described yourself as being pretty average."

But she's TWENTY SIX. A big factor for at least two different reasons. I'll let others elaborate.

[zPro]

It's way too late, you will never get her.

1.You didn't act fast enough, she sees you as a friend.
2.You thought about this WAY TOO MUCH (putting unnecessary pressure on yourself)

Dude, this is ONE GIRL on a huge 30K campus!!

There is still hope for you, but forget about banging this girl. (at the moment)

Become friends with her, meet her friends, there should be a few bangable ones.
Hump a few of her friends, then the hottie will become jealous.
This creates tension and interest.
There is a good chance she will become attracted.

You've gotta push the interaction.
Take some risks.

[jaydub]

[ QUOTE ]
"She's the hotest girl on campus, and you've described yourself as being pretty average."

But she's TWENTY SIX. A big factor for at least two different reasons. I'll let others elaborate.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually that's a hindrance as she will be far less likely to be willing to deal with a man who is woefully inexperienced and lacking in self confidence.

[obsidian]

I dare you to post this in OOT.

[andyfox]

"she's just a chick. Plenty more of 'em lying around. Don't sweat it or put her up on a pedestal. They all start to piss you off after awhile anyway."

Sheer poetry. If you don't appreciate these four sentences, look at them this way:

She's just a chick.
Plenty more of 'em lying around.
Don't sweat it,
Or put Her up on a pedestal.
They all start to piss you off after a while,
Anyway.

"Even average guys score hot ones every now and then."

This is true. When I was in college, the ugliest, poorest, least articulate guy in our group was getting the most. His secret? He simply asked almost everyone. Two for a hundred, in this category, is a better batting average than one for four.

[jedi]

[ QUOTE ]
He's betting because he knows that I don't care about the 100 dollars as much as I care about the girl.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who says he's betting against you?

[4_2_it]

[ QUOTE ]
Two for a hundred, in this category, is a better batting average than one for four.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pure Gold

[Tilt]

[ QUOTE ]
You have absolutely no chance. I'd lay money on it.



[/ QUOTE ]

DOn't listen to this guy, or any of the other negative idiots in this thread. If you doubt yourself at all, ask yourself this reaffirming question: Would David Sklansky ever make -EV bet?

[SheetWise]

Braille?

[4_2_it]

[ QUOTE ]
Braille?

[/ QUOTE ]

You're only 4 days late with that comment.

[SNOWBALL138]

I pull up to school thursday in my 2002 convertible red toyata solara. I have the top down, and depeche mode is playing on my awesome sound system. As I park, I hear "Snowball!", and I look over my shoulder to see HER. She's happens to be parked right next to me. She compliments me a bunch on my car, saying its really nice and fancy, etc.

We end up studying in my car for about an hour before class, because we had a test that day. She leaves for the restroom for 15 minutes or more.

She gets back
"I got locked in the bathroom"
"Wow, you shoulda called me"
"I didn't have my cell phone"
"So you broke down the door?"
"Yeah (laughing)
"You hurt this shoulder?" (I rub it a little)
"Thanks"

I mention that I'm probably going to Frico for the weekend, and she says "wow, I wish I could ride up with you."

Anyway, she has this invalid staying with her from out of town, so there's no way I'm asking her out this weekend. It turns out that I am not going out of town this weekend though.

[ QUOTE ]
"She's the hotest girl on campus, and you've described yourself as being pretty average."

But she's TWENTY SIX. A big factor for at least two different reasons. I'll let others elaborate.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll take the other side of that hundred dollar bet if you'd care to double up. And for what it's worth, I had my wife read the original post, and she's with me. No shot.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You have absolutely no chance. I'd lay money on it.



[/ QUOTE ]

DOn't listen to this guy, or any of the other negative idiots in this thread. If you doubt yourself at all, ask yourself this reaffirming question: Would David Sklansky ever make -EV bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

If I'm such an idiot why don't you lay some money on it? $100 says I'm right, and I'll just go ahead and trust the honor system. If it's good enough for David Sklansky, then it's good enough for me.

[jzpiano14]

[ QUOTE ]
I pull up to school thursday in my 2002 convertible red toyata solara. I have the top down, and depeche mode is playing on my awesome sound system. As I park, I hear "Snowball!", and I look over my shoulder to see HER. She's happens to be parked right next to me. She compliments me a bunch on my car, saying its really nice and fancy, etc.

We end up studying in my car for about an hour before class, because we had a test that day. She leaves for the restroom for 15 minutes or more.

She gets back
"I got locked in the bathroom"
"Wow, you shoulda called me"
"I didn't have my cell phone"
"So you broke down the door?"
"Yeah (laughing)
"You hurt this shoulder?" (I rub it a little)
"Thanks"

I mention that I'm probably going to Frico for the weekend, and she says "wow, I wish I could ride up with you."

Anyway, she has this invalid staying with her from out of town, so there's no way I'm asking her out this weekend. It turns out that I am not going out of town this weekend though.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm thinking ur going to be good, ask her out mid next week and you should be alright, gl

[4_2_it]

[ QUOTE ]
I pull up to school thursday in my 2002 convertible red toyata solara. I have the top down, and depeche mode is playing on my awesome sound system. As I park, I hear "Snowball!", and I look over my shoulder to see HER. She's happens to be parked right next to me. She compliments me a bunch on my car, saying its really nice and fancy, etc.

We end up studying in my car for about an hour before class, because we had a test that day. She leaves for the restroom for 15 minutes or more.

She gets back
"I got locked in the bathroom"
"Wow, you shoulda called me"
"I didn't have my cell phone"
"So you broke down the door?"
"Yeah (laughing)
"You hurt this shoulder?" (I rub it a little)
"Thanks"

I mention that I'm probably going to Frico for the weekend, and she says "wow, I wish I could ride up with you."



[/ QUOTE ]

Dude, you just tripped over the finish line. She just asked you out and you didn't follow up?

Here's an angle I haven't seen discussed yet: maybe she thinks you are gay and has put you in the safe friend zone. Mentioning that you are going to SF could have set the WRONG signal there. You could be sending all kinds of gay signals (i.e. Depeche Mode, SF, Don't like to ask hot chicks out).

I think TT is a miracle worker if he pulls this one out of the crapper.

I wish you well. Every guy should score with as many hot chicks as possible, but it seems you might need some prodding to get on with it.

[RydenStoompala]

Snowball:

First, change your handle from Snowball to Piledriver, Dark OverLord of the Universe.
Then, do the right thing and consume the girl like Homer Simpson on a donut.
Finaly, post the pics on rydenthepervet.com.

[jaydub]

haha this just gets better. rocking the solara with the pimp system. depeche mode on top of that. [censored] classic.

too bad there's not a way to verify cause we could get some big action going on this prop.

[andyfox]

You got her phone number? Call her up and tell her you didn't go to Frico after all, and you were thinking about her, but you're on the way to the store, you know she's tied up with the invalid and all, anything you can bring her? (Don't use the phrase "the invalid.") Don't make it a big deal. She'll probably say, Oh, how sweet, what a nice guy, no, I'm OK, but thanks. If she says come on over, do so. No moves, though, with the invalid there. Follow up asking her for a date after the weekend.

I imagine I speak for most everyone here when I say this is perhaps the most exciting hand we've played in a long time. We're all getting a vicarious thrill out of it. And we're all pulling for you.

I've only met two other men named Snowball, Snowball136 and Snowball137. Oddly, they both enjoyed depeche mode too. Strange planet.

[Tilt]

Studying together in a car is beyond flirtatious.

What kind of look did she give you when you rubbed her shoulder? Was it like a near moaning look and a deep guttural "thaaaaanks"? Or did she instictively jerk away and muttered thanks just to cover up her obvious disgust?

[andyfox]

From another thread by Sklansky:

If two people are both setting lines on some event there are four attributes I can see that could make A's line better than B's

1. He is smarter-more gifted at setting lines in general.

2. He is more knowledgeble-has studied more about the subject of setting lines in general.

3. He is more knowledgeable about the specific subject or event that the linemaking is addressing.

4. He is less biased about the subject.

Regardless of the subject being debated, if one linemaker is superior to another in three out of four of these things it almost always means that his line will be closer to the truth. If someone is superior in all four aspects, his line MUST be better.

[end]

My money's with David.

[Jeffage]

[ QUOTE ]
(Don't use the phrase "the invalid.")

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, that was hilarious. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

Jeff

[Luv2DriveTT]

[ QUOTE ]
I've only met two other men named Snowball, Snowball136 and Snowball137. Oddly, they both enjoyed depeche mode too. Strange planet.

[/ QUOTE ]

The more I think about this, the more I think I'm right. Snowball isn't gonna make it on this one.

I'm sitting here at work and the smoking hot intern just walked up to our male intern coordinator. She complemented his shirt, giggled at one of his stupid jokes, touched his shoulder, and smiled at him. Sound familiar? It should. It's the same behavior Snowball describes.

Here's the rub: This dude is a complete turd. He is the last guy on earth Little Miss Intern Hottie would ever hook up with. Trust me.

So why all the flirtation? She wants something from him. She thinks he can help her with her career. It's how she gets ahead in life. I've seen her do it with other males, and she's great at picking out the ones who will shower her with attention.

I think the same thing is going on here with Snowball. He's apparently a sharp law student. Perhaps this woman is leaning on him for help in class. Or maybe she just likes the attention he gives her.

Bottom line is this: When a very attractive woman flirts with an average looking guy, the odds are overwhelming that she has ulterior motives. They might not necessarily be malicious, but they are usually selfish.

My offer stands. $100 says Snowball doesn't get up with the hot babe. Plenty of people here say otherwise. Who's willing to put his money where his mouth is?

[Tilt]

[ QUOTE ]
So why all the flirtation? She wants something from him. She thinks he can help her with her career.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree, but even so this doesn't rule out the possibility of him scoring. Just imagine what he can do for her grades if she lets him boink her.

[jaydub]

[ QUOTE ]
The more I think about this, the more I think I'm right. Snowball isn't gonna make it on this one.

I'm sitting here at work and the smoking hot intern just walked up to our male intern coordinator. She complemented his shirt, giggled at one of his stupid jokes, touched his shoulder, and smiled at him. Sound familiar? It should. It's the same behavior Snowball describes.

Here's the rub: This dude is a complete turd. He is the last guy on earth Little Miss Intern Hottie would ever hook up with. Trust me.

So why all the flirtation? She wants something from him. She thinks he can help her with her career. It's how she gets ahead in life. I've seen her do it with other males, and she's great at picking out the ones who will shower her with attention.

I think the same thing is going on here with Snowball. He's apparently a sharp law student. Perhaps this woman is leaning on him for help in class. Or maybe she just likes the attention he gives her.

Bottom line is this: When a very attractive woman flirts with an average looking guy, the odds are overwhelming that she has ulterior motives. They might not necessarily be malicious, but they are usually selfish.

My offer stands. $100 says Snowball doesn't get up with the hot babe. Plenty of people here say otherwise. Who's willing to put his money where his mouth is?

[/ QUOTE ]

ding ding ding. ladder theory 101.

[ QUOTE ]
"I really want to learn latin. We should take latin together!"



[/ QUOTE ]

This tipped the scales for me. Latin?? Please. Get in there and take care of business, son. Don't listen to some of these humps who say you're in the friend zone. Even if you technically are at the moment, you can extricate yourself. Get to work.

PS I double dare you to post this in OOT.

[jzpiano14]

[/ QUOTE ]


PS I double dare you to post this in OOT.

[/ QUOTE ]

The end of all seriousness in this thread if this should happen

[ QUOTE ]


[/ QUOTE ]


PS I double dare you to post this in OOT.

[/ QUOTE ]

The end of all seriousness in this thread if this should happen

[/ QUOTE ]

The seriousness ship sailed when a few posters suggested he whip his tallywhacker out.

[jzpiano14]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


[/ QUOTE ]


PS I double dare you to post this in OOT.

[/ QUOTE ]

The end of all seriousness in this thread if this should happen

[/ QUOTE ]

The seriousness ship sailed when a few posters suggested he whip his tallywhacker out.

[/ QUOTE ]

ah yes.....good point

[KeysrSoze]

[ QUOTE ]


ding ding ding. ladder theory 101.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly! Come on people, can't you tell that he's hopelessly on the "friends ladder"?

[SNOWBALL138]

[ QUOTE ]
Here's an angle I haven't seen discussed yet: maybe she thinks you are gay and has put you in the safe friend zone. Mentioning that you are going to SF could have set the WRONG signal there. You could be sending all kinds of gay signals (i.e. Depeche Mode, SF, Don't like to ask hot chicks out).


[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I did mention that I was going to stop by George Michaels' new Glory Holes Theme Park on the way up north. I suppose if she had an overactive imagination, she could interpret that the wrong way.

[4_2_it]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Here's an angle I haven't seen discussed yet: maybe she thinks you are gay and has put you in the safe friend zone. Mentioning that you are going to SF could have set the WRONG signal there. You could be sending all kinds of gay signals (i.e. Depeche Mode, SF, Don't like to ask hot chicks out).


[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I did mention that I was going to stop by George Michaels' new Glory Holes Theme Park on the way up north. I suppose if she had an overactive imagination, she could interpret that the wrong way.

[/ QUOTE ]

NH /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[AlphaWice]

1) I think it was "Hobbes" that mentioned that there is no chance for him because she is just using him as a crutch for grades. However, why did she ask him out then?

2) [censored] dating. It's as simple as this: _Instadate_. I'll let ASF veterans follow up on what I'm talking about.

[AA suited]

[ QUOTE ]
Snowball:

First, change your handle from Snowball to Piledriver, Dark OverLord of the Universe.
Then, do the right thing and consume the girl like Homer Simpson on a donut.
Finaly, post the pics on rydenthepervet.com.

[/ QUOTE ]

hahaha... i just got your meaning of SnowBall.. Lol

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So why all the flirtation? She wants something from him. She thinks he can help her with her career.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree, but even so this doesn't rule out the possibility of him scoring. Just imagine what he can do for her grades if she lets him boink her.

[/ QUOTE ]

Didn't you call me an idiot a few posts ago? Why are you still running off at the mouth? I offered you a bet. Take it and prove me wrong, bigtime. Don't you want to take easy money off the "idiot?" I'm beginning to think you're all talk.

[AA suited]

ask her out already.

Scenario 1: Flopping the Royal

Snowball: Hi there
Hot girl: Oh, hi, snowBall
Snowball: So what are you doing Friday night?
Hot girl: Fvcking your brains out.
Snowball: &lt;Smiles&gt;
Hot girl: Can my sister come too?

Scenario 2: You can't beat the board

Snowball: Want to go out Friday night?
HotGirl: I'm flattered, but I think of you as a friend

Scenario 3: Somewhere inbetween

[ QUOTE ]
Here's an angle I haven't seen discussed yet: maybe she thinks you are gay and has put you in the safe friend zone.

[/ QUOTE ]

With two 'snowball - will he or won't he' threads to read I feel I'm being spoilt. LMAO at todays posts.

Don't know if my previous post made it clear or not snowball but I'm betting that you do get the girl. With todays action I lengthened the odds for you to blow out and got another three takers. I'm gonna clean up when your cahoneys drop.

Stay focused /images/graemlins/crazy.gif and positive /images/graemlins/cool.gif with the ride and the tunes you got her eating out of yer hand now ! Who would of funk it... if only you had a big wedge of ca$h to flash she'd really love your personality /images/graemlins/heart.gif

[Tilt]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So why all the flirtation? She wants something from him. She thinks he can help her with her career.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree, but even so this doesn't rule out the possibility of him scoring. Just imagine what he can do for her grades if she lets him boink her.

[/ QUOTE ]

Didn't you call me an idiot a few posts ago? Why are you still running off at the mouth? I offered you a bet. Take it and prove me wrong, bigtime. Don't you want to take easy money off the "idiot?" I'm beginning to think you're all talk.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd bet with you on this if the conditions were right, such as if:

* I were convinced I could get an accurate and unambigous report of the outcome
* That you are a respectable person who would pay

I'm not convinced that these conditions persist. Convince me otherwise.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So why all the flirtation? She wants something from him. She thinks he can help her with her career.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree, but even so this doesn't rule out the possibility of him scoring. Just imagine what he can do for her grades if she lets him boink her.

[/ QUOTE ]

Didn't you call me an idiot a few posts ago? Why are you still running off at the mouth? I offered you a bet. Take it and prove me wrong, bigtime. Don't you want to take easy money off the "idiot?" I'm beginning to think you're all talk.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd bet with you on this if the conditions were right, such as if:

* I were convinced I could get an accurate and unambigous report of the outcome
* That you are a respectable person who would pay

I'm not convinced that these conditions persist. Convince me otherwise.

[/ QUOTE ]

All I have on payment is my word, same as you. If you like, I'll give you my email address which contains my full name. I'd expect you to keep it confidential unless I refused to pay.

As far as an unbiased account, I suppose we'd have to rely on Snowball. If he'd have any reason to slant the account, it would certainly go your way. Perhaps we can see if he can be convinced to play along.

The only thing to settle beyond this would be terms. In other words, what constitutes success.

I'm willing to just throw caution to the wind and trust all parties. Anyone who would cheat to win $100 on what should be a silly bet is a piece of trash. I'm certainly not a man who would do such a thing, and if you are then you're welcome to my $100. It certainly won't make up for the fact that you'd know you cheated.

So, what do you think. Are we on? I think I'm right and am in a wagering mood. If I'm wrong I'll take solace in the knowledge that 'ol Snowball played out of his league and hit a home run. I'll never begrudge any guy that. It's a magical thing when you can make it happen.

[ QUOTE ]
I'm sitting here at work and the smoking hot intern just walked up to our male intern coordinator. She complemented his shirt, giggled at one of his stupid jokes, touched his shoulder, and smiled at him. Sound familiar? It should. It's the same behavior Snowball describes.

Here's the rub: This dude is a complete turd. He is the last guy on earth Little Miss Intern Hottie would ever hook up with. Trust me.

[/ QUOTE ]
Oh, how many times guys say this, and then complain that so many little hotties are hooking up with complete turds...

Guys in general have very little ability to assess women's feelings, whether for themselves or other men. That's why the guys who default to "she wants me" so often end up with attractive women - sure, they get rejected often enough, but their attitude assures that they don't miss the opportunities that DO present themselves.

[Mikey]

you're almost a 3 to 1 favorite..... to be favored to be with this girl.

Think of it this way.....

You have KdKs and the love gods are holding Ah6h

The board reads 4h 7h 9d 4s.

One more card to come....


My solution to your problem is keep listing more favorable things and unfavorable things this way we can come to a better judgement of whether or not this girl is right for you and then we'll be able to judge how much of a favorite you really are.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm sitting here at work and the smoking hot intern just walked up to our male intern coordinator. She complemented his shirt, giggled at one of his stupid jokes, touched his shoulder, and smiled at him. Sound familiar? It should. It's the same behavior Snowball describes.

Here's the rub: This dude is a complete turd. He is the last guy on earth Little Miss Intern Hottie would ever hook up with. Trust me.

[/ QUOTE ]
Oh, how many times guys say this, and then complain that so many little hotties are hooking up with complete turds...

Guys in general have very little ability to assess women's feelings, whether for themselves or other men. That's why the guys who default to "she wants me" so often end up with attractive women - sure, they get rejected often enough, but their attitude assures that they don't miss the opportunities that DO present themselves.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, for God's sake! You know NOTHING about women. You're CLUELESS.

You think my assessment of this guy is based on jealousy? I'm recently married, pal. My wife is beautiful and I'm madly in love with her. I'm the guy that other men look at and think, "How the hell did he land that?" Do you think I care if some guy at work hooks up with an intern?

I sure hope you don't play live poker. Clearly you have no idea how to read people.

Does everyone here REALLY believe that this super hot college girl digs our average looking hero soooooooo much that she's been chasing him around dropping hints about going on dates for months? Really?

Get a clue. Hot women don't waste time chasing average guys. They get hit on and asked out all the time. They have a million options. While we're all participating in this little slumber party gossip fest, Hot College Babe is getting banged by some slick looking, muscular dude who dresses nice and had the balls to stare her in the eyes, let her know EXACTLY what he was after, and ask her out on a date.

What happened when our hero invited Hot College Babe to a Halloween party? She had friends in town, but asked for the address and said she'd try to stop by, right? But she didn't. Guess what, if a woman is really hot for a guy, she'll make that effort no matter what, even if it's only 5 minutes to say hello. She'll cajole and whine to her visitng friends about how much she likes this guy, and she'll drag them all over just to let him know that she's interested.

It ain't happening. She likes our hero as a friend because he's smart and nice, and pays a lot of attention to her. But any shot he had at getting on her went out the window long ago because he played his hand softly, the worst possible thing you can do with a woman.

All you young guys need to listen up on this one and take my advice: Never, ever, ever use the nice guy friend routine on a woman if you are hoping to have sex with her. Women make a very strict division in their minds between potential hook-ups and friends. Once they've formed this opinion it's almost impossible to change. And they make up their minds pretty damned soon after meeting you.

It's a rookie mistake, fellows. Yet guys do it time and time again, mostly because they don't have the confidence to be aggressive.

Look, this is no different than poker. Soft, weak play brings nothing but misery. Any girl you are interested in should know in her mind that you want to f*ck her within the first couple hours of meeting you. You need to make her understand that by the way you look at her and how you talk to her. This doesn't mean being rude, vile, or overbearing. You just need to put the signal out. You gotta sack up, 'cause women can smell insecurity.

Women don't want puppy dog eyes and sensitivity from their sex partners. That's what their guy friends (who aren't getting any) are for. Women want men to be strong and aggressive. It's in their biology. It's who they are. A few hundred years of technology isn't going to change thousands of years of survival of the fittest, guys. This stuff is hard-wired. All that feminist crap they're slinging to you on campus is WRONG. It's a lie, and they know it.

And I'm willing to put $100 on anyone who says otherwise. Still waiting for a taker. Anyone?

[David Sklansky]

Snowball, print out Hobbes post. If all else fails you are to tell her about this thread and show her his post with the words "I guess I thought you would be an exception". It will probably do more harm than good but it does add some extra outs if you are otherwise drawing dead.

David, please please please take my action.

Your mathematical genius just doesn't translate here. It's rare indeed to have my own skills give me this kind of edge. I'd like to exploit it.

If my post seals the deal for our hero I'll be right here celebrating with the rest of you, but frankly I'm shocked by how bad this advice is. Even if our hero thinks he's "drawing dead," showing the fair maiden this thread will probably be rewarded with a restraining order.

Did you think this through? Imagine our fair maiden's reaction if she were to know she were being discussed and wagered upon on a poker forum. Showing her this thread would only serve to make our hero look obsessed and deranged. And it would kill his chances not only with her, but with any female acquaintance she may happen to have on campus.

Snowball, don't EVER show her this thread, even if you marry her.

[ QUOTE ]
Oh, for God's sake! You know NOTHING about women. You're CLUELESS.

[/ QUOTE ]
(insults snipped)

You forgot to say, "I think."

I've studied this stuff. You obviously haven't. 'Nuff said.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Oh, for God's sake! You know NOTHING about women. You're CLUELESS.

[/ QUOTE ]
(insults snipped)

You forgot to say, "I think."

I've studied this stuff. You obviously haven't. 'Nuff said.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nuff said? You've "studied"? Did you take a Psych 101 class and figure out the whole world? Or was it Gender and Communication 120?

What in the world are you talking about? Your vague, self-professed credentials mean nothing to me.

"I've studied this stuff." Oh, dear.

All this talk and no one will make a measley $100 bet.

[AnyTwoCanLose]

I think you are very wrong in assuming that because she's hot she won't like you.

Often, super hot girls don't have anything to prove and look beyond looks even more than average girls.

Don't doubt yourself... either this girl likes you or she's toying with you... and being a "yoga chick" wouldn't fit with all of that.

UNLESS YOU ACT GAY.

She might think you are gay.

That said... I have a foolproof plan.

Do a magic trick, call her a beautiful Betty and tell her you are in Rocks and Rings and invite her out for a night of clubbing with Esfandiari and Chris Ferguson.

[nomadtla]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
great call, that is exactly what i was thinking

[/ QUOTE ]

Am I seeing a trend here?

/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

My comment was intended to showcase my rapier wit.

Hey Snowball, sorry I forget to give you the collective wisdom of OOT: Get drunk, SIIHP.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP
Come on everyone here knows that is the collective wisdom of OOT

[andyfox]

.

[David Sklansky]

I don't disagree with your theories in general. I see this situation as an exception.

Dude, seriously, you're over analyzing this.

Ask her out already.

If she's really 26, she's been around the block. Especailly if she's as hot as you say. She's dealt with all the big guys with their big egos and has come of age understanding that she wants a guy who treats her right and has a bright future and is stable, not some jerk who's going to party with the boys and chase other girls.

One word of caution -- take it slow. Don't come on too strong. But ask her out. If she says no for what ever reason, apply the three strike rule. Three nos and you're out. Otherwise, you have nothing to lose. Go for it.

BTW: I'm 44 and used to be kind of in your boat. Things worked out well for me and I'm happily married. I scored with a great woman for the very reasons you have a chance to get something interesting going with this lady.

[Peter666]

WTF

"She might think you are gay."

Then you tell him to do this??:

"tell her you are in Rocks and Rings and invite her out for a night of clubbing with Esfandiari and Chris Ferguson."

Don't you know that is 100% irrefutable proof that one is gay? Don't mislead the young man.

And yeah, don't be intimidated about her beauty. I was considered a nerd in highschool, but still managed to date the most beautiful girl in it for 3 years, all to the dismay of the jocks. Muahahaha nar har

[ QUOTE ]
I don't disagree with your theories in general. I see this situation as an exception.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok. Why do you see this particular situation as an exception?

My read on you is that your softer side just can't help but to root for the underdog. Disabuse me of this notion by laying out your case.

And again, why won't you or anyone else take my action?

[David Sklansky]

You need to go to confession merely for contributing to this thread.

[David Sklansky]

"If she's really 26, she's been around the block. Especailly if she's as hot as you say. She's dealt with all the big guys with their big egos and has come of age understanding that she wants a guy who treats her right and has a bright future and is stable, not some jerk who's going to party with the boys and chase other girls."

That's my read as well. Meanwhile stop soliciting a bet against him. I will allow no one on this foum to gain if a disaster befalls a fellow two plus twoer.

[SNOWBALL138]

I went to a halloween party last night, and she didn't come. I don't know why she didn't come, but it might have something to do with her not liking me...

or, it could be that she felt obligated to stay home with the invalid, or the fact that she has to work in the morning.

Read your post, and I can feel your anxiety. I used to be where you're at, and I would like to help as best I can. I'm gonna get in yer head.

If what I'm about to say in the next few paragraphs isn't true, then by all means disregard my advice. If it is, maybe you should pay attention. I'm not criticizing, making light, or anything else... simply trying to put myself in your mindset.

My hypothesis into your background: (derived from your posts so far)
You've had two girlfriends, one from high school, one you met in a bar/party that you originally scored a one nighter with, but she wanted more, and you more or less said to yourself "ah, what the hell?". Although you didn't find that relationship intensely satisfying. (Perhaps not exactly, but you see what I'm saying. What is important here is that I'm trying to establish your past experiences with women)

(Now we're getting into the stuff I know you're feeling)
You've had a couple of one-night stands before, but after each one, you were left thinking "How did I do that? How can I do it again?", but never could come up with a real answer, thus leaving you more confused than before.

You're uncomfortable around women, feeling like attracting the opposite sex is a challenge. If I can just say the right things and do the right things, I can get the girl, you say to yourself.

How'm I doing so far?

So far, with this girl, you've probably been doing something inadvertantly right, because it seems like she's very into you. A girl that laughs at all your jokes (even the unfunny ones) and looks for excuses to initiate contact with you thinks you're a good find.

I'm afraid she's not the problem, my friend. You are the problem.

You don't seem to think that you are worthy of being with this girl.






Look at how you're presenting it to us:

"I asked her to a halloween party, and she told me she had some friends in town and was doing something else, but that I should give her the address and she might stop by...

This is hard for me to evaluate because her excuse might be true."

Her "excuse"? Is it *that* hard to believe that a gal might already had plans on the biggest social weekend of the month? Or would you rather just believe that she enjoys screwing you around?

As for "might stop by"... put yourself in her shoes. When was the last time you said to someone "I'm busy, but I might stop by"? Did you go? Probably not. That's just something people say to be polite when they're already booked. In general, people are uncomfortable telling someone "No" flat out. So don't be upset that she didn't show to the party, she never said she was coming.



"" She is 26 and I am 21.
This is pretty unfavorable just by itself. Most women I know like older guys. ""

This is true, but as shown by all the positive evidence, she is obviously not "most women", so you can disregard this. But note how you're still looking for reasons why she's not into you.



""She's so much hotter than I am its ridiculous.""
You're flat-out telling me that's she's out of your league. And she is. Your thinking is putting her in another league.



The bad news is, in the current state of affairs, your odds of landing this particular girl are not very good. She's given you loads of opportunities, and you've let most fly by.

The good news is, it can still happen. And more importantly, you can still learn that it doesn't really matter if you do or not. But like when you were first teaching yourself not to tilt, keep a level head, etc. You've got to do that here. But it will take a major shift in your thought process. You're going to have to give your sense of self-image a severe kick in the ass.

Repeat after me.

I am da MAN. No, I am not a chiseled, washboard-abbed, square-jawed, vision of perfection, and she *still* thinks I'm the greatest thing since sliced bread. There's no better proof that I've got a lot going for me. That's what makes me da MAN. Da MAN deserves nothing less than a woman that's going to treat him like a million freakin' dollars. I am da MAN. I do what I want. I say what I want. I make no apologies. If she doesn't like that, then SHE has just missed out on a wonderful opportunity. An opportunity to be with a guy with as much going for him as I do. An opportunity to be with da MAN.

List to yourself what you see as your top 10 qualities. (Don't stop 'til you have 10, man)
Know what those are? Those are the reasons she likes you. Now stop sitting in the glow of your laptop, thinking of reasons why she doesn't. Get out there and be exactly who you want to be. Don't apologise for it. Don't feel guilty about it.

Don't be afraid of what she'll think. She likes you when you act naturally. She can tell when you're not, she's not dumb. She's not a puzzle to be figured out, she's not a challenge. Take her off the pedestal; treat her like a human being, a flawed, imperfect, human being, just like you. Treat yourself with some self respect, like a man that deserves nothing less than what you want.

Only then will you be able to build a relationship (with her, or one of the thousands of girls surrounding you) the way you want it to be.





Thoughts?

[ QUOTE ]
Meanwhile stop soliciting a bet against him. I will allow no one on this foum to gain if a disaster befalls a fellow two plus twoer.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, for crying out loud. This is the whole problem with the way this situation is being discussed. If a girl you have a crush on rejects your date offer, it's not a disaster. It's just part of life. It happens to all of us. Enough with the hyperbole.

I only sought a bet because I suspected that most people didn't believe as strongly in this cause as they were pretending. My failure to get even a single taker confirms this suspicion.

To be honest, I was just poking the hornets nest a bit with some of my posts, but I've become genuinely irritated at the mollycoddling nature of this particular thread. Our hero posted some information and asked for people's opinions. Well, he got them. Sorry you don't like mine or the amount of confidence I bring to my assessment.

What I'm seeing here is a lot of cheerleading, not an honest appraisal of the facts posted by our hero. You wouldn't tell someone who posted a hand history that he played a hand well if you didn't think he did, and you wouldn't sugarcoat your opinion to build his confidence either.

Maybe you actually believe in this guy's chances, but if you're simply trying to be supportive, then I would argue that you're doing our hero no favors. The goal is to improve your game, not feel better about yourself. Losing one hand in poker is no disaster. There's another one coming, just like there's always another girl to ask out. Learn from your mistakes and move on.

This whole "Nice Guy" pathology is the height of male hypocrisy. Oh, boo-hoo. Why won't the hottest girl on campus see past superficialities and see how much I have to offer? Mmmmhmmmm. How many men walk past the knockout in the low cut dress and make a line for the frumpy girl in the corner because you see the beauty inside? Raise your hands, y'all. Raise 'em up high!

I take no pleasure in someone getting shot down, but I'm certainly not going to hug a guy who tried to play out of his league and failed while he weeps bitter, hot tears of anger and humiliation. Hot girls are hard to get. No harm in trying, but don't be surprised or outraged if you fail.

But I'll go ahead and stop propositioning wagers since it is upsetting the delicate nature of this group therapy session. Thanks for letting me know that the privilege of wagering belongs only to you.

[Mac]

[ QUOTE ]

Snowball, print out Hobbes post. If all else fails you are to tell her about this thread and show her his post with the words "I guess I thought you would be an exception". It will probably do more harm than good but it does add some extra outs if you are otherwise drawing dead.

[/ QUOTE ]

are you looking for her to throw a restraining order on the poor guy? This is just horrible advice. If Snowball missed the boat, there's always the shot she would hook him up with one of her less attractive friends down the road (that's really the only thing the friend thing buys you). No need to make yourself look like a psycho, though..

Hobbes - give the kid a break, a lot of what you say is right, but asking her out is ultimately character building and should be encouraged. Also, congrats on the hot wife.

- MAC

[Peter666]

You assume I haven't been excommunicated already.

And to the OP, don't put this woman on a pedastool. If she is as neat as you claim and single at 26, I am sure half the men in the state know her intimately. This will come back to haunt you.

[ QUOTE ]

Hobbes - give the kid a break, a lot of what you say is right, but asking her out is ultimately character building and should be encouraged. Also, congrats on the hot wife.

- MAC

[/ QUOTE ]

I actually recommended that the guy ask her out, even though I didn't think she'd say yes. And I recommended it based on the same idea that it's good practice and builds character.

My intention is not to bash Snowball. My irritation is with the advice he is getting from some of the other posters. It may be well-intentioned, but it's destructive.

My advice here would be to stop overthinking things, stop waiting for the perfect opportunity, and just ask her out in a straightforward manner. Make sure she knows it's a date, not a friendly get together.

My more general advice for this particular individual is to understand that there is an opportunity cost involved with focusing all your attention on pursuing one female. Every moment spent worrying about this one woman is a potentially lost opportunity with another. College campuses are full of attractive women. They may not all be 10's, but if you take the time to really observe, it's amazing how good qualities you missed when looking for perfection become evident when you look a little closer.

Yes, I think there may be a confidence issue here, but it won't be solved by encouraging our young hero to pursue someone who is almost impossible to obtain. That would be like telling a poker newbie to jump into a ring game with Doyle Brunson and TJ Cloutier.

The way to overcome shyness with women is with practice. And the nice thing is, just like with poker, you can always start small. Flirt with the middle aged married waitress over breakfast. Chat it up with the homely, overweight checkout girl at the supermarket.

Think I'm kidding? I'm not. It's about obtaining a comfort level with women. Once you're comfortable with women you wouldn't consider, you can move up to women that you would like to ask out.

And thanks on the wife. We just found out this weekend that she's pregnant. It'll be our first. I was thinking just today that all none of this attractiveness stuff matters outside of the early dating process. I didn't marry my wife because I think she's nice looking. I married her because she's my perfect match and there's no one I'd rather wake up next to for the rest of my life.

[ QUOTE ]
Oh, for crying out loud. This is the whole problem with the way this situation is being discussed. If a girl you have a crush on rejects your date offer, it's not a disaster. It's just part of life. It happens to all of us. Enough with the hyperbole.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'd swear it was a huge deal to you, from the large amount of crap you've been throwing over it.

[ QUOTE ]

I'd swear it was a huge deal to you, from the large amount of crap you've been throwing over it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is that all you got? Aren't you the guy who's "studied this stuff"? Well, lay some knowledge on me, expert. There's nothing I enjoy more than lectures from first year college students who have everything all figured out.

[Tilt]

So Hobbes, I've been thinking about your offer for a bet, and trying to reconcile why I don't want to take it even though I think Snowball has a good chance here. And the reason is this - the odds you are offering are terrible.

The odds of any two people getting together are not good. How many hot women have you met in your life? How many have you hooked up with? For most people the ratio of (hooked up with) : (become friendly with) is pretty low.

Even so, I think Snowball has a much better than average chance here, despite all your obsessive and overly-concerned points to the contrary. But how does a wager account for all the reasons she would turn him down that have little to do with him? She might be involved, she might be pregnant, she might be in therapy, she might have herpes, she might be moving, she might (fill in the blank).

So, I still Snowball has a good chance. But I can't lay even odds on it. And i am surprised to find btw that you have a family and successful marriage cause you sure have come off like a prick on this thread with your discouraging remarks.

[ QUOTE ]
Is that all you got?

[/ QUOTE ]
Nope, I got one more thing:

[ QUOTE ]
You are now ignoring this user. You will no longer see the body of any of their posts.

[/ QUOTE ]

Buh-bye now.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is that all you got?

[/ QUOTE ]
Nope, I got one more thing:

[ QUOTE ]
You are now ignoring this user. You will no longer see the body of any of their posts.

[/ QUOTE ]

Buh-bye now.

[/ QUOTE ]

umm, Im not sure if you're going to want to hear this... but you have done nothing to show your "expert status" on women.

Then, when he responds by saying "show me what you studied" (I'd like to see that too, btw), you change the face of the argument to the only area you have control - ignoring him.

I call BS.

I first thought Hobbes was a prick too, but he is absolutely right about the way this thread has evolved. Poker players are thick-skinned, or they lose their money, period. Snowball here is a poker player (I think) and therefore he should be sufficiently thick skinned, enough so he doesnt need to be coddled.

Hobbes is absolutely right that he might have played his hand too weak (something I still do too often), but he's also absolutely right that there's another hand on the way: just keep your eyes open.

Um, and no offense to all the advice posted on this thread, but... see, there's this phenomenon on the poker forums. When describing themselves, 99% of the posters will describe failure as only "breaking even" but statistically we know that this just cant be true.

I think there's a form of that at work here.

Oh, and Sklansky, Im just wondering, you offered a bet that Snowball would get the job done, right? We shouldn't logically expect that your $100 bet means overmuch to you, emotionally speaking. You are just betting on an outcome. For Snowball to be taking this bet, he is betting against himself.

Hobbes would be betting that way also, not because emotionally he will profit from snowball's loss, just because A)He thinks he can get action, B)He thinks he's getting his money in when it's good.

Why is that so wrong?

[ QUOTE ]

And i am surprised to find btw that you have a family and successful marriage cause you sure have come off like a prick on this thread with your discouraging remarks.

[/ QUOTE ]

I call 'em how I see 'em. Would you say someone was a "prick" because he "discouraged" a poker newbie from cutting his teeth in games with advanced players?

And before labeling me as a prick, you might want to review how you came barging into this thread calling me an idiot. I haven't called anyone names, unless you count telling someone he is clueless as namecalling. I will certainly admit to tweaking a few noses here. I didn't know poker players had such thin skin. Perhaps you would be more comfortable on an Oprah Winfrey message board.

[ QUOTE ]
umm, Im not sure if you're going to want to hear this... but you have done nothing to show your "expert status" on women.

[/ QUOTE ]
Cool down, bro. I'm not here to prove anything. I simply disagreed with Hobbes, he told me I knew nothing, I told him otherwise. I have no more burden of proof to demonstrate my skills, training or experience than Hobbes has to demonstrate his (and he hasn't yet, either). I'm not trying to sell you anything.

Thing is, we could have had a very cool discussion about all this, but unfortunately, Hobbes turned it into a showdown at the OK corral, insulting anyone he disagrees with, so that isn't going to happen.

I completely understand a lot of guys are very interested in this issue, especially the younger ones who feel like they might remain virgins forever. But a couple of paragraphs in a poker chat board aren't going to help - they're going to get overanalyzed and argued, no matter what they are. For example, I can give you a very basic premise: attraction is not a choice. But that might make OP's dilemma even more agonizing, knowing that she probably decided whether or not she'd let him get in her pants on that very first day of class! (Unfortunaely, it's probably been downhill from there.)

I'm going to leave this thread with one piece of advice for Snowball: resolve to be this girl's FRIEND. Be the coolest friend in the world, but do NOT attempt to seduce her, or to do "date" things. Refer to her as your "buddy." Do friend stuff. Hang out, go dancing, shoot pool, whatever. Ask her about other women you're interested in. DATE other women (hanging with a hot girl will give you mad value in other women's eyes). Above all, don't expect to ever do the nasty with her.

Don't be surprised, though, if one night, out of the blue, she attacks you. You can decide what to do about that if and when it happens.

[ QUOTE ]
Thing is, we could have had a very cool discussion about all this, but unfortunately, Hobbes turned it into a showdown at the OK corral

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, we were all happily in agreement until mean 'ol Hobbes came along and spoiled the fun.

[ QUOTE ]
I have no more burden of proof to demonstrate my skills, training or experience than Hobbes has to demonstrate his

[/ QUOTE ]

Except that you asserted that you've "studied this stuff" and concluded with "nuff said," therebye arguing that your expertise was sufficent to end all debate.

[ QUOTE ]

I'm going to leave this thread with one piece of advice for Snowball: resolve to be this girl's FRIEND. Be the coolest friend in the world, but do NOT attempt to seduce her, or to do "date" things. Refer to her as your "buddy." Do friend stuff. Hang out, go dancing, shoot pool, whatever. Ask her about other women you're interested in. DATE other women (hanging with a hot girl will give you mad value in other women's eyes). Above all, don't expect to ever do the nasty with her.

Don't be surprised, though, if one night, out of the blue, she attacks you. You can decide what to do about that if and when it happens.

[/ QUOTE ]

Terrible advice. Resolving to be "friends" with a woman you are overwhelmingly attracted to will lead to frustration and unhappiness. You can't put aside these feelings, and you will be reduced to having a dishonest relationship with her because your attraction will always be in competition with your friendship.

Say your new "friend" wants some dating advice. Now how honest are you going to be able to be with her? Can you really be fully supportive as a "friend" when she brings Biff over to meet you?

Besides, befriending a woman in hopes that she may one day "decide to jump you" is fundamentally dishonest. Also, our expert friend here, who has decided to put me on ignore, should be aware that women know all about this sneaky little tactic. My wife calls men who pull this stunt, "Snakes in the Grass."

But, hey, what do I know? I haven't "studied this stuff."

Gots a question for ya hobbes, since the expert has departed.

What about coming clean, with no expectation of getting laid.

Something (hopefully smoother than this, but this is spur of the moment) like: "Hey I wanted to date you, but I'd be cool just being friends." That way, it's out in the open, and if she decides to be friends, that's cool.

Women say they hate games, but they all play them. I prefer things to be blunt and out in the open. Are there any chances that this open admission could lead to a date?

Just wondering.

[ QUOTE ]
Gots a question for ya hobbes, since the expert has departed.

[/ QUOTE ]
Hee hee. Still here, just watching the bad advice. And Hobbes is the only one who has said I'm an expert, and, well, he's been known to be wrong about a lot of stuff...

[ QUOTE ]
What about coming clean, with no expectation of getting laid.

[/ QUOTE ]
That's a fine idea (although requiring more cojones than OP may be able to muster), so I'm guessing Hobbes will hate it. Or more precisely, his wife will hate it. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[ QUOTE ]
Something (hopefully smoother than this, but this is spur of the moment) like: "Hey I wanted to date you, but I'd be cool just being friends." That way, it's out in the open, and if she decides to be friends, that's cool.


[/ QUOTE ]

No, I don't care for that at all. It's just another hedge. I'm of the opinion that friendship and dating are two different things, and shouldn't be mixed.

I just don't think this situation is a winner. Our hero should just ask her out, get his answer (most probably a no)and move on.

[ QUOTE ]
Or more precisely, his wife will hate it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ohhh, zinger!!!!!

Thought you put me on ignore.

[Luv2DriveTT]

[ QUOTE ]
I will not let SNOWBALL138, or 2+2 down should he accept my proposition. On that I guarantee or I promise to renounce my title at 2+2.

TT /images/graemlins/club.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

After our coaching session on Sunday, I believe the odds against him succeeding have been lowered. Together we worked on a self analysis and acquisition strategy to pinpoint the following:

1) How he views himself
2) How he views her
3) How she views him (vs how he views himself)
4) What is the compatible middle ground
5) How to adapt the environment to accentuate the positive - Ty's patented TOTAL CONTROL formula.

Snowball has what it takes, using my methodology (or an adaption of the methodology if he choses to take the advanced course) he has improved his chances for success by 8%-10%.

Good luck Snowball... don't let me, or all of 2+2 down. You represent every geeky card player who ever was afraid to set their goals high, seize the day!

TT /images/graemlins/club.gif

Tell me more about this patented Total Control formula, 'cause I'm digging the title a lot.

Also, I think that you should be sharing your techniques with the group for further debate and analysis. This thread could serve as a future jumping off point for similar questions/situations.

[[censored]]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I will not let SNOWBALL138, or 2+2 down should he accept my proposition. On that I guarantee or I promise to renounce my title at 2+2.

TT /images/graemlins/club.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

After our coaching session on Sunday, I believe the odds against him succeeding have been lowered. Together we worked on a self analysis and acquisition strategy to pinpoint the following:

1) How he views himself
2) How he views her
3) How she views him (vs how he views himself)
4) What is the compatible middle ground
5) How to adapt the environment to accentuate the positive - Ty's patented TOTAL CONTROL formula.

Snowball has what it takes, using my methodology (or an adaption of the methodology if he choses to take the advanced course) he has improved his chances for success by 8%-10%.

Good luck Snowball... don't let me, or all of 2+2 down. You represent every geeky card player who ever was afraid to set their goals high, seize the day!

TT /images/graemlins/club.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

So yeah how does one make an appoitment again?

[Luv2DriveTT]

[ QUOTE ]
Tell me more about this patented Total Control formula, 'cause I'm digging the title a lot.

Also, I think that you should be sharing your techniques with the group for further debate and analysis. This thread could serve as a future jumping off point for similar questions/situations.

[/ QUOTE ]

Its patented. You can negotiate a license fee if you like...

TT /images/graemlins/club.gif

[jedi]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Gots a question for ya hobbes, since the expert has departed.

[/ QUOTE ]
Hee hee. Still here, just watching the bad advice. And Hobbes is the only one who has said I'm an expert, and, well, he's been known to be wrong about a lot of stuff...


[/ QUOTE ]

I thought you said you "studied this stuff" and therefore was more qualified than Hobbes to advise our OP here, implying that you're the expert in this field.

[ QUOTE ]
I thought you said you "studied this stuff" and therefore was more qualified than Hobbes to advise our OP here, implying that you're the expert in this field.

[/ QUOTE ]
All implications are in your mind (actually in Hobbes' mind, you're repeating them).

[jedi]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I thought you said you "studied this stuff" and therefore was more qualified than Hobbes to advise our OP here, implying that you're the expert in this field.

[/ QUOTE ]
All implications are in your mind (actually in Hobbes' mind, you're repeating them).

[/ QUOTE ]


[ QUOTE ]
I've studied this stuff. You obviously haven't. 'Nuff said.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dunno. What is the conclusion that we're supposed to get here?

[ QUOTE ]
I dunno. What is the conclusion that we're supposed to get here?

[/ QUOTE ]
Er, that I've studied it and he hasn't...?

Doesn't seem like rocket science (of course, now I would expect you to think I'm an expert in rocket science).

Seriously, at this point you're trying to pick a fight. If there's one thing I AM an expert in, it's what I said, and maybe you should choose to acknowledge and move on. This is not grade school.

Okay, Im calling foul.

there is no, and I repeat, NO way to "study" women, other than having been one yourself (and most of them dont even understand themselves), asking a bajillion women stupid questions (which wouldnt get you anywhere, or stalking a few.

Which is it, and if Im wrong, where did you "study"?

Oh, and BTW, when you straight out say you know more about something than someone else, you are implying an "expert" status over them... especially since you've "studied".

Otherwise, courts would be full of doctors used as "studying" witnesses.

Doesn't make much sense.

[jedi]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I dunno. What is the conclusion that we're supposed to get here?

[/ QUOTE ]
Er, that I've studied it and he hasn't...?

Doesn't seem like rocket science (of course, now I would expect you to think I'm an expert in rocket science).

Seriously, at this point you're trying to pick a fight. If there's one thing I AM an expert in, it's what I said, and maybe you should choose to acknowledge and move on. This is not grade school.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's legit question. You claim to have studied it and blow off Hobbes' debate with 'nuff said, implying that you're the expert and no one should listen to him. All the while you haven't backed up your claim.

Meanwhile, I come in to this thread late, ask 2 questions and you claim I'm picking a fight. Why should I acknowledge that you're an expert in this when you haven't shown yourself to be one? I'll move on, but I acknowledge nothing about your expertise.

[ QUOTE ]
I'll move on

[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'll move on

[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]


So you're just not going to answer our questions?

Have you "studied" evasion?

[krubban]

Would you mind stopping the E-peen-measuring and instead have some meaningful interesting discussion.

What the guy everyone is trying to cut down is trying to say is that he has STUDIED (yes it can be done) the concept of attraction and relations between men and women. Anyone who says that can't be studied are plain wrong imo. As an example you take a sample of 100 meetings between a man and different women, in 50 of the cases the men opens with "wanna see my ****" and in the other 50 cases he said "Hi, I just noticed that you have beautiful shoes, where did you buy them?".
This limited study will undoubtly show that the second opener is much more effective if you wish to keep a conversation going for more then 10 seconds with a woman.

I'm not going to claim expert status but I've too run across the "material" that igni is referring to.
Let's just say that it makes a lot of sense and made me change a lot of my beliefs regarding how to attract women that I've had since I was young.

Dude, I think that you misunderstand me. I want igni to share this information... I am only peeved that he claimed to study, without showing what he studied.

I think that alot of what I find out will just be what I already think, but Im always down to learn about the opposite sex.

if by studying, you mean learning by experience, talking to chicks about what works and what doesnt, then yeah, I've "studied" too.

[krubban]

Didn't mean to be harsh but it would be a shame if a topic with so much potential was reduced to a battle of who knows the most about women.

There's probably a lot of guys on this forum who would like to learn more about women, I am one of them.
Recently I decided to try to "fix" this part of my life. I've always had quite low self confidence and hoped that some day some woman would see what a nice guy I am and things would work out. This haven't worked very well for the past 21 years...
I just couldn't understand why my last girlfriend broke up with me, I was so nice to her that I won't even tell the lengths i went to please her :P

I was fed up with the thought of having to settle with a woman because she was the best I would ever get my hands on and not being able to choose someone I like. I hated the thought of having to get "lucky" to find a woman that liked me.

I've started working out my self-esteem issues and talking to friends who are more successful with women even though they aren't far ahead in the looks department.
I think a lot of guys have a deep rooted fear of rejection in their brains which makes it kind of hard to approach women that you like to approach because it would feel terrible if she didn't like you.
I'm trying to change my mindset when dealing with women to get rid of that pesky anxiety. Instead of trying to get her to like me I just try to make her smile and have a good time. If she decides to like me that's fine and if she doesn't there are plenty more fish in the sea, right?

This past weekend I was at a club and decided to ignore those previous "settle" girls that I wasn't really interested in and go for the ones that I used to consider being way out of my league. I even used the same opener on all of them with great results. (i know, openers are lame /images/graemlins/wink.gif )

Since I had so good results with it I'll share it with you guys too. I made eye contact, smiled and said "Hey, long time no see. What have you been doing lately?". It's hilarious to look at them trying to figure out where the hell they've seen you before /images/graemlins/wink.gif. Then they said "Do I know you?" and i reply "Yeah, don't you remember me?" which makes them think some more and if they say that they don't I continued with "This relationship isn't working, you can't forget me after each time we meet."
After this I just kept the fun up and had a good time.
One could say that my sample size is to small to rate this tactic but I got great responses from women i would have dreaded to approach before and I even got a kiss and number from one of them.
Needless to say this was a great confidence boost /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

I've always seen average guys with beautiful women and wondered how the hell they did manage that. Now I'm starting to feel hope again and it feels great. I still have to work a lot on my self esteem but It's always nice to have a little success on the way. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ QUOTE ]
If there's one thing I AM an expert in, it's what I said, and maybe you should choose to acknowledge and move on. This is not grade school.

[/ QUOTE ]

And yet he continues to offer jackassed advice.

I guess it's easier to assert some magical authority on the subject instead of backing up your claims.

Let's not forget whose predictions on the original post have proven true thus far. This thread is all but dead now that it's become clear that our hero has almost no chance of achieving his goal. I predicted this all along, yet our self-proclaimed expert here keeps pretending he knows more about the subject than do I.

He can keep his mythical expertise. I'll stick to my track record.

[ QUOTE ]
Dude, I think that you misunderstand me. I want igni to share this information...

[/ QUOTE ]
It sounds like you really just want to learn more. If that's the case, PM me and I can give you some great resources without having to engage in a mudfight with Hobbes and hijacking someone else's thread in the process. This will be my last post in this thread, and I won't be reading it either.

I'm going to play poker now. Remember poker? /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[ QUOTE ]
PM me and I can give you some great resources


[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, he's got a whole stack of Judy Blume books and 2 or 3 back issues of Cosmopolitan Magazine. Knock yourself out!

[jaydub]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
PM me and I can give you some great resources


[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, he's got a whole stack of Judy Blume books and 2 or 3 back issues of Cosmopolitan Magazine. Knock yourself out!

[/ QUOTE ]

Come on now, be fair.. he has a couple 17s and a YM too

I think "he" may have a vagina.

I'm thinking about posting a general dating advice thread. Some of the advice I've seen here is so bad that I feel compelled to put something more useful out there. I had a couple of things bouncing around in my head that I'd like to get down on print.

I could write down some basics, tell a couple of anecdotes, and let others jump in from there.

What do you guys think?

[odellthurman]

I think I'd rather read about Snowball's situation. Please start your own thread.

[4_2_it]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm thinking about posting a general dating advice thread. Some of the advice I've seen here is so bad that I feel compelled to put something more useful out there. I had a couple of things bouncing around in my head that I'd like to get down on print.

I could write down some basics, tell a couple of anecdotes, and let others jump in from there.

What do you guys think?

[/ QUOTE ]

Dominic already has this covered in OOT. I recommend you post in his threads. If you have good advice, the people who need it will be reading it. If your advice advice, you will receive the maximum amount of ridicule. Sounds like a win-win to me.

[David Sklansky]

"I'm thinking about posting a general dating advice thread"

How about a dating advice FORUM?

A dating advice forum is a great idea. I suspect that many poker players (particularly online players) tend to be introverted and shy. The Briggs-Meier personality profiles point to this if I'm not mistaken.

[jaydub]

[ QUOTE ]
"I'm thinking about posting a general dating advice thread"

How about a dating advice FORUM?

[/ QUOTE ]

We have one, it's called OOT.

[krubban]

Would still be nice to have a separate "dating" forum wouldn't it? Then you don't have to wade through all the crap in OOT to find what you're looking for.
After all there's a separate forum for politics and i have to think that discussing chicks interests more people then politics does.

[4_2_it]

[ QUOTE ]
"I'm thinking about posting a general dating advice thread"

How about a dating advice FORUM?

[/ QUOTE ]

Let Dominic be the mode and get eharmony.com to sponsor it. Guaranteed success.

[Tilt]

* Bump *

Whats the story Snowball? More invalids in town this weekend? We need an update. Isn't your calss on Wednesdays?

[jaydub]

[ QUOTE ]
* Bump *

Whats the story Snowball? More invalids in town this weekend? We need an update. Isn't your calss on Wednesdays?

[/ QUOTE ]

It went something like this:

Snowball: Hi chicky, there's something I've wanted to tell you &lt;pause&gt; for ummm a long time now. &lt;pause&gt; &lt;deep breath&gt; I like you
Chicky: Oh I like you too snowey, you're such a nice guy.
Snowball: &lt;pause&gt; What I mean is I like you &lt;pause&gt; &lt;really deep breath&gt; as more than a friend.

Snowball makes eye contact for the first time, a pleading look on his face

Chicky: Oh snowey, I like you too but not in that way. I value our friendship too much.

big tattooed biker looking dude approaches

Chicky: Snowball have you met my boyfriend Snake? He just got out on parole, I'm so happy to have him back.

Snake glances in Snowball's direction and gives a half nod

Snake: Come on Chicky move your ass, I'm hungry.
Chicky: Ok, bye Snowball. I'll see you in class next week.

Snowball goes home to cry at the loss of his true love

THE END.

[Alyssa]

[ QUOTE ]

It went something like this:

Snowball: Hi chicky, there's something I've wanted to tell you &lt;pause&gt; for ummm a long time now. &lt;pause&gt; &lt;deep breath&gt; I like you
Chicky: Oh I like you too snowey, you're such a nice guy.
Snowball: &lt;pause&gt; What I mean is I like you &lt;pause&gt; &lt;really deep breath&gt; as more than a friend.

Snowball makes eye contact for the first time, a pleading look on his face

Chicky: Oh snowey, I like you too but not in that way. I value our friendship too much.

big tattooed biker looking dude approaches

Chicky: Snowball have you met my boyfriend Snake? He just got out on parole, I'm so happy to have him back.

Snake glances in Snowball's direction and gives a half nod

Snake: Come on Chicky move your ass, I'm hungry.
Chicky: Ok, bye Snowball. I'll see you in class next week.

Snowball goes home to cry at the loss of his true love

THE END.

[/ QUOTE ]


LMFAO!

[4_2_it]

[ QUOTE ]

Snowball goes home to and posts his failure on 2+2 and collects a c-note from David Sklansky which, incidentally, he uses to update his Magic The Gathering card collection

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

[MarkSummers]

I call BS on the OP. He seems clueless to be true.

[yellowjack]

-no text

[SNOWBALL138]

Just to summarize some events:

-Invalid man left town

-She said she was going to come to the halloween party but didn't

-She "fell asleep" and didn't tell me she wasn't coming

-She missed class yesterday

-I called her to fill her in on what happened in class. She said it would be cool if we met up on wednesday (now today) to go over some stuff.

I said that would be cool, but she'd have to drive over to me. She said she'd call and "let me know". She hasn't called.

Basically, I'm a favorite to be on the wrong ladder, and I might not even be very high on that ladder. On the other hand, I'm about to be 100 dollars richer. Prop bets rule.

I'm not giving up, but I'm definitely very far from optimistic about this whole thing. I think I'm currently the victim of what Sklansky called "celebrity niceness."

Sure, we still have good conversations, and I make her laugh, but that doesn't mean I'm not her b1tch-boy intellectual whore.

I want to emphasize though that even though things are grim, I probably have a 4 outer to hit on the river, as per TT's advice. I'm about to call off all my chips. Wish me luck.

[Luv2DriveTT]

[ QUOTE ]
"I'm thinking about posting a general dating advice thread"

How about a dating advice FORUM?

[/ QUOTE ]

I am available for hourly consultation, the forum would upset my business model.

TT /images/graemlins/club.gif

[addickt]

GHB and a hot iron pressed against there clit and they will always tell the truth

[4_2_it]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"I'm thinking about posting a general dating advice thread"

How about a dating advice FORUM?

[/ QUOTE ]

I am available for hourly consultation, the forum would upset my business model.

TT /images/graemlins/club.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

It seems Snowball's chance can taken a horrible turn for the worse once you got involved.

You may to offer a 150% money back guarantee to continue your business. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Ace-Ex]

Even though he's "not reading this thread anymore" I just wanted to chime in and say everything Hobbes is saying is correct. I think it's time for Snowball to make a crying call on the river and move on to the next hand. Snow invested a lot in this situation and it sucks that it probably won't pay off. He needs to play hardball at this point--quit helping her with her classwork. If you don't give her what it appears she's really in this "relationship" for, she won't hang out with you and laugh at your jokes anymore. Don't get mad at her, but if she asks you what's up tell her that you're attracted to her and it looks like it's not going to work out so she can do her own damn homework from now on. Just don't be a wet noodle with her. If you're not careful the situation could go on indefinitely and you'll just be miserable. Either that or decide she's not your type and you're going to be her friend because it might get you some good networking opportunities to meet other women. The point is that you gotta resolve the situation and move on in your mind so you don't waste cycles on a hopeless situation.

I've been through these situations before. I have a personality that tends to hold on to things a little too long and I think a lot of us introverted guys are the same way. Learn from my mistakes and start looking at women in terms of poker hands that you can fold or pay off. The key is to resolve issues so you don't get depressed for an extended period of time. We have a tendency to make things bigger in our mind than they actually are by focusing too much on a single issue. It's a hard habit to break, and I'm not a therapist so I really don't know how to fix it. Practice saying to yourself "it really doesn't matter that much" or something. Hopefully that attitude can give you a little confidence and you might be able to impress a woman by acting like you don't care about her. Humans are weird--we don't like being pressured into anything--especially dating.

Good luck to you Snowball. We are all pulling for you and it's obvious you have a lot to offer a woman, so keep your head up and keep looking for the next opportunity.

I started looking at women in terms of poker hands and now all I see is a whole bunch of small-pots that dont make my gutshot worthwhile. Then I go gambooool it up instead.

[David Sklansky]

There is one other last ditch measure (two versions) that I am very familiar with (without which we would not have a general moderator for theis website). The only problem is that it takes awhile and I have only until Jan 1.

The idea is to get to the top of the friends ladder, have her become emotionally dependent on you and then VERY DECISIVELY announce with NO WARNING and NO SNIVELING that you realize you are attracted to her and that it is best if you don't see each other again. Do not make it sound like it is an ultimatum! Make her think that you totally assume you have no chance with her. You are just making an announcement. Period.

The other version, probably more powerful, is to tell her, or better yet hint (again after having spent a lot of time on the top of her friends ladder) that you have a girlfriend who would prefer you two stop being so friendly. This you can string out over a week or two. Perhaps you can get a girl to act the part. Or if you want to be unethical you can actually get a girlfriend.

After the speech you really don't see her. But there is about a 25% chance she will call you after a week or two of reflection. (5% chance of instant capitulation).

The key here is to get to the VERY TOP of the friends ladder and not be too "cuddly" as you are doing it. Hobbe's wife will call you a snake in the grass but she is wrong. Because girls who will torment nice guys while they date the jerks should not complain about this tactic, at least as far as I'm concerned.

So the bottom line is to ask her out but not appear crushed if you get turned down. Then act as if being just friends is OK. After which spend about two or three months wending your way into her mind. Where she feels you are the first person to tell when anything important comes up. It will be too late for me but maybe not for you.

[Eaglesfan1]

I haven't read the rest of the thread, so I'm not informed on the million replies down there. I'm just responding to the original post.

It definately should be obvious at this point that she is/was definately into you or wanted to use you for something. Your list is full of signals girls send to us to let us know there into us. As we all know women don't generally ask men out, they don't put themselves out for any risk of rejection. It's the mans job to risk rejection from the woman. All the women can do when there into us is and were not going after them is send signals for us to pick up on so WE pursue HER. Sometimes these signals can be pretty subtle and the unaware man may miss them. Though in your example these signals don't seem to be subtle at all and are actually blatantly obvious. They even seem way too obvious implying she either REALLY likes you or just wants something from you. more on that later.

With that said, you shouldn't care whether she's into you or not! You must find out for yourself! Sitting back and not doing anything because your unsure whether she likes you or not is the worst thing you could do. You must go for it, you can't be scared of rejection which may be what you are here. Lets run the scenario's quickly. Lets say she really does like you. You go for it and get a date with her, nice, babies could be made, relationship could be formed. Or you sit back still trying to figure out if she likes you or not and miss out on the opportunity of a life time. Now lets say she doesn't actually like you, you go for it, you don't get a date, but now don't have to worry about the situation any longer. Or you sit back still trying to figure out whether she likes you or not when you aren't getting anything out of the situation no matter how much you worry about it since she doesn't like you anyway. Nothing constructive comes from not pursuing her. This is the way it is with all chicks. Who cares about the signals and whether she's into you or not. Go for it anyway. You can't be scared of rejection, rejection is nothing, yet if we make it a big deal in our minds we can manifest a fake fear of it.

As for this particular situation, she is sending some definite signals. Though sorry to say this seems a little too good to be true. A smokin hot chick thats lives far away from you and is 5 years older than you is into you. This is 1 of 3 things. 1. She either is really nice and is being nice to you knowing there will be no relationship. 2. She REALLY REALLY likes you. or 3. she wants something from you, such as you doing her law work. Though if you wanna bang an experienced Smokin hot chick that bad, it may be worth the price. Your Choice.

EDIT:
[ QUOTE ]
I'd say you are 70%. My only concern is negative #3. That makes me worry that she falls in the category of what you might call "movie star niceness" (I just coined that phrase)where she takes it upon herself to make guys out of her league feel good about the attention she gives them, never considering that they may start to think they have a chance with her. If that's the case you are drawing dead. But you'll find out almost instantly so it won't be a prolonged ordeal.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just found this quote looking through the thread. This would be what im saying in possiblity #1.

[Eaglesfan1]

Remember Snowball what David just described is a LAST ditch option! Only do this if you know you believe your chances are all gone! Also the key to this is when you get her leaning on you emotionally hard enough you need to somehow get her "just friends" mentality over to the more than friends mentality, this change should probably be made in conjunction with leaning back or forward emotionally some. This will all be VERY tough to do and this whole process is definately a 1 outer or even runner runner but you could be idolized if you pulled it off.

[ThaHero]

Not tryin to kiss ass, but that is genius!

I've got to try these tactics sometime in my life...just for kicks.

[Blankstare]

Read my reply in David's "Controversial Advice" thread.

[McGahee]

[ QUOTE ]
I usually require a girl to say "listen dumbass, I like you" before I'm sure. However, I think even I could have worked out by now that asking her for dinner or whatever would probably be successful.

Another positive sign is if she hasn't dropped "my boyfriend" into any conversations yet - many girls find ways of doing this to warn guys off without doing it directly.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am also clueless w/ women and those are my sentiments exactly.

[AA suited]

SNOWBALL138,

update? (i'm going over my past threads)

[SNOWBALL138]

I've basically lost touch with her. She dropped the class and is shooting a movie so we haven't talked much.