I'm buying 2 kittens this week

[scott8]

I have relied on some of the advice in a previous thread on cats and have decided to take the plunge into the world of pet owner.

The decision for 2 was based more on the notion that two cats would be better for each other, than actually wanting 2 cats. Although, I don't think I'll mind.

I aim to seek out siblings, probably both female, around 10-12 weeks old.

They will be fixed (I think its required anyway), I will never declaw, although they will probably just be inside cats (although I may not fully appreciate the ramifactions of such a decision).

I have used petfinder to find a bunch of kittens available, and will probably pursue this angle.

It seems to be some sort of shelter/foster program where they rescue pets which were about to be killed and give them another chance.

I have no intention of buying from a pet store or a breeder.

I'm not sure if there is anything else I should be considering, but I would appreciate any advice or tips.

As of now, I own nothing cat-related, but plan on visiting the pet store tomorrow.

Thanks in advance,

SC

[send_the_msg]

[ QUOTE ]
They will be fixed (I think its required anyway)

[/ QUOTE ]

nope

[daryn]

wtf did you have earlier in that tournament when you raised utg and i flat called 2 positions later. flop came w/ an Ace and it went check check. turn you bet like 9500... size of pot, and i folded?

/images/graemlins/heart.gif

[samjjones]

Technically, you are not "buying" if you are getting them from a shelter (you are "adopting"). But good job getting two, and good luck with the litter situation.

[Los Feliz Slim]

There are people here who will tell you that keeping them inside is cruel, I believe you MUST keep them inside. The life expectancy of indoor cats is much much longer than outdoor, and if you get them as kittens they won't know the difference.

You should still put collars and tags on them, though, in case they get outside. My cats also have microchips imbedded under their skin so they can be tracked if they ever get out. I don't think it was that expensive, maybe $75/cat.

I have only heard stories about un-fixed cats, but I'm told that if your cats are not fixed they go nuts when they are in heat and you'll have lots of gentleman callers. You should fix them unless you're going to be a breeder.

If you can stay in the habit of clipping their nails from the very beginning you'll be happier. We didn't do it regularly enough, so the cats hate it, so we don't do it, and they tear lots of stuff up. Do not declaw.

[MelK]

What a coincidence. I'm getting three cats this week too. I need to be ready for our annual Samhain sacrifice next week. Three back cats, three black rats, and a virgin.

[HopeydaFish]

Keeping them indoors is definitely the way to go. Just make sure they have lots of toys to play with (preferably things that are small enough that they can "hunt") and they'll be fine.

Keep their nails clipped short and you won't have as much damage to furniture if they do decide to scratch.

Make sure you have plenty of scratching posts around, preferably one in every room the cats are likely to hang out in. Sprinkle catnip on the posts every so often to encourage them to use them.

When the cats are young is the time to drill it into their heads that they are not allowed to scratch anywhere but the scratching posts. Get a water gun and squirt them whenever they start scratching anything other than the scratching posts. However, try to squirt them without them seeing you do it. Cats are *very* smart and will figure out pretty quick that they'll only get squirted for scratching furniture when you're around -- so when you're not around, they'll be scratching to their hearts' contents. Also, giving them a treat whenever they use their scratching post would help with positive reinforcement.

One more thing, if you're really affectionate and treat your cats well when they're young, they'll grow up to be affectionate and friendly cats when they're older. If you ignore your cats and/or don't treat them well when they're young, you might end up with aloof and ill-tempered pets.

[Pinga]

Getting them from a shelter is good.

Sometimes siblings don't do well together. You may want to get two unrelated cats.

[WDC]

Our two cats becane outdoor cats the first time my son left the front door open. After that time it was impossible to get them to stay inside. Good luck with keeping them inside.

[utmt40]

Its a post like this that reminds me of that "Men should act like men" commercial...

[Paluka]

Scott I think your plan sounds awesome. My wife and I got 2 sibling cats from a shelter a year ago, and it was the best thing I've ever done.

[JihadOnTheRiver]

I see you live in San Dog. The shelter that they have here is unreal. Its like an animal heaven. They have a great number for you to choose from, babies and grown up ones alike. I forgot exactly what its called, but I think it has 'Humane Society' in it, and its right off the I-8.

-Jihad

PS. Don't get a cat.

[HopeydaFish]

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Our two cats becane outdoor cats the first time my son left the front door open. After that time it was impossible to get them to stay inside. Good luck with keeping them inside.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've had cats all my life and they've always been indoor cats. Once they reach a certain age they get skittish about going outside and won't try to run out the door if they get a chance. These days, if my cats get outside, they go no farther than the front porch, and then usually turn around and run inside once they hear a strange noise.

[Patrick del Poker Grande]

[ QUOTE ]
Its a post like this that reminds me of that "Men should act like men" commercial...

[/ QUOTE ]
This was exactly what I was thinking as I clicked on this thread. To the OP (and most of the other people in here): Look out for giant beer cans falling from the sky.

[samjjones]

Shouldn't you guys be out walking your dogs?
/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[pokerdirty]

http://www.grographics.com/transient/free-cat.jpg

i'm sorry, but it was left wide open.

[toss]

Wow. Humans are evil!

[Blarg]

Great ideas, man. Two is very nice, because they usually really do like each other's company. Cats are much more sociable than a lot of cat haters think. And they don't have to get used to each other if they're siblings, and seem to like each other right off the bat. Plus, females are mellow and won't stink up the place by spraying. Not declawing is the only way to do it; declawing actually removes the first joint of their paws and or course is very painful for them, plus it leaves them unable to climb properly or defend themselves if they ever have to.

Best set of decisions I've seen talked about on OOT for a good while!

Two suggestions on toys -- that kind that is like a wire or a fishing pole that has a string dangling from it, to which is attached usually a piece of cloth as if it were the "bait" you were fishing with. You can just make little flicks of your finger while holding it and make the bait dance, and I've never seen a cat not go NUTS over chasing it. They really love it! Well worth the small expense. Also, from everything I've heard, they really really love the hollow tube that is formed into a ring and has plastic balls in it, with slots cut out of the side of the ring so the cats can swat at the balls.

Also, be generous with the size of the litter tray. Especially if you have two cats. And change it frequently. That kind of litter that clumps up the pee so you can lift it out as a solid ball is excellent. Sooner or later you might want to change the fresh litter, but it won't build up much smell at all for quite a while.

Another tip: when you empty the tray, clean it VERY thoroughly. Cats' senses of smell is acute. I'd suggest a bleach solution soaking for a bit, to really kill the odors.

The problem with odors and cats is that cats actually get physically ill from the effort they will take to avoid bad odors. And like I said, they're sensitive and stuff will smell bad to them long before it does to you. A cat that doesn't like the cleanliness of his box will start holding his pee and hurting himself internally -- yep, it really happens, and it's not good for them. Kidney trouble, bladder trouble, eating problems result. And they might start to pee in odd places, or anywhere but their box. This is a double whammy because cats readily become habituated to peeing in a certain place, so once they feel more comfy peeing in your relatively smell free living room than their stinky box, they might be peeing in your living room for a long time to come.

This is another reason why you should keep your cat's food and water in another room from his litter box. Cats can easily develop eating and drinking problems if they're hit with urine and feces smells when they try to eat. Again, at a level undetectable by you. Many people have cats with eating problems, and this is one of the biggest reasons. Drinking problems again turns into kidney damage and digestion problems.

So, make litter box cleanliness a big priority, not an afterthought. By the time it smells to you, it will be a turturous stink to your cat.

And get some good cat food, like Iams. This will have less ash in it than ordinary cat foods, and they like the taste a lot more too. Get it in the 25 lb. bags to cut way, way back on the cost. The smaller bags will kill you and make you want to give them awful stuff like Purina just because it's cheap.

Also, humans love variety; cats crave sameness. Merely changing a picture on the wall can make some cats hide under the bed for a week. Establish a cat food flavor with them while they are young, and they will not only have a preference for it, but think that's how food ought to taste. And they'll be quite happy with that food forever after. It's extremely common for humans to try to help their cats get a little joy out of life by switching foods up on them. This isn't so great from the cat perspective. It can not only lead to digestive problems, but to them simply not eating, or eating just enough to not starve. Some cats are exceptions to this, but they are by far the exception. If you want to give you cat some variety and love, give it more playtime and cuddling. Save the changing food around for yourself.

This also means you'll have to pass up the "cat food of the week" sale at stores. Deal with it. Your cat's health and happiness is much more important than pinching pennies on food, one of the few demands, they make on you, and not a big one. A single 25 lb. bag of Iams for two cats will last you a long, long time.

P.S. -- on food, dry is not only fine, but preferable. Wet food goes bad much more quickly. Dry food retains its palatability all day. Throw any leftovers out the next day.

P.P.S. -- Don't forget what I said about cleanliness applies very much to food and water bowls! Cats can easily develop problems if their food and water dishes are not kept scrupulously clean. After all, you woulnd't want to eat out of dishes that smell like ass either, right? And your cat can smell ass 20 times better than you. So -- clean those dishes good, like a mom, not a frat boy. Water and food dishes should be separate, and the water dish especially should be cleaned every day.

Sorry if I made any of this sound like trouble, but cats are extremely low maintenance, and deserve at least the small courtesies I mentioned. You could have an unhappy cat, and even some vet bills, if you give your cats less than the minimum courtesies any living creature would want, and deserves.

Oh, another note -- get them some of that chocolate or caramel or whatever flavored stuff, comes in a tube, that helps dissolve hairballs. They absolutely love the stuff. It's like five or six bucks a tube, or was when i had cats, but you don't use it up all that quickly. They'll lick it right off your finger and love it.

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
There are people here who will tell you that keeping them inside is cruel, I believe you MUST keep them inside. The life expectancy of indoor cats is much much longer than outdoor, and if you get them as kittens they won't know the difference.

You should still put collars and tags on them, though, in case they get outside. My cats also have microchips imbedded under their skin so they can be tracked if they ever get out. I don't think it was that expensive, maybe $75/cat.

I have only heard stories about un-fixed cats, but I'm told that if your cats are not fixed they go nuts when they are in heat and you'll have lots of gentleman callers. You should fix them unless you're going to be a breeder.

If you can stay in the habit of clipping their nails from the very beginning you'll be happier. We didn't do it regularly enough, so the cats hate it, so we don't do it, and they tear lots of stuff up. Do not declaw.

[/ QUOTE ]


I agree with this. THe lifespan of an outdoor cat is like a year and a half. Exposing your babies to that means they are subjected the violence a big nasty world can afflict on what are essentially prey animals. They're really not impressive compared to a dog, a hawk, a car, a coyote, or jerky kids. And just as bad, cat diseases are astoundingly quick and virulent. They can literally die in a couple of days after catching them.

Also agreed on the nail clipping. You should get them used to it very young. Even going so far as to touch and separate their claws when they don't need clipping. What you want is to have them habituated to your doing the deed and handling their body in intrusive ways in general.

This is very necessary for when they get injured or really need it.

Take your time and don't rush the clipping, because clipping the meat in their nails will freak them out for a long time to come. If they start squirm too much, discipline them by laying your finger down, with a little pressure, along the top of their nose up to the forehead. This works very well with cats to show them who is boss, yet is completely non-violent and low stress for both of you. Only clip when you can see that none of the nail bud is in the grip of the scissors. Use the special nail scissor device, not regular scissors. It's like a little guillotine.

This also goes for showers. Bathing a cat can be a violent and bloody nightmare if you don't get them used to it while young. But if you do, they'll trust you and let you do almost anything to them. I got mine so mellow that even the vet marveled at how docile and trusting they were. I built up that trust with frequent intrusive handling started when they were very young. When I bathed my cats, I would take them in the shower naked and sit cross legged, with one of those extended shower top hoses to do the rinsing and keep us warm. They were stepping around my nuts, but even when quite unhappy about the soaking and scrubbing, were docile enough to never scratch me even once, and completely trustworthy. This happens when you give your cats plenty of handling and reason to trust you. Putting off things like clipping nails and bathing them only makes doing it harder and harder and more of a battle between you. Start young, and they'll act toward you as if you were their loving mommy. They might not like what you're doing, but they'd never dream of giving you real trouble or trying to hurt you.

[samjjones]

Get a laser pointer. Your cats will LOVE this.

[jackdaniels]

You guys have renewed my faith in OOT. Excellent advice re: cats.

To OP - this will be a decision that you will cherish for years to come. Having a cat (or cats) is a fantastic feeling comparable only to that of having children (only without the hassle).

I second almost every piece of (serious) advice given so far and I applaud you for adopting cats from a shelter instead of going to a pet shop.

Excellent!

[Cancer Merchant]

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Get a laser pointer. Your cats will LOVE this.

[/ QUOTE ]

The only thing better is two laser pointers, going in opposite directions. That and the feline hogh jump contest when you shine it on the wall.

[NJchick]

Great to hear you are adopting from a shelter!

Some advice when you go.

Don't rule out older cats. There are plenty of affectionate, playful cats that are in need of good homes. Some come from homes where the owner died or could no longer care for them. You know what you are getting with a cat vs. kitten.

I have 2 cats and I'm glad I have them in pairs. They keep each other busy when I am away at work for long hours, they sleep, play and groom with each other.

Indoors is a MUST.

Great advice from other posters about care and maintenance.

If I could add anything it would be to make sure both cats have plenty of fresh water. I usually change their water bowls 2x a day.

Best of luck.

Here are my 2 boys.

http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/314/cats15en.jpg

[Blarg]

Not to mention when you do it at the top of the stairs -- just kidding!

[HopeydaFish]

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http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/314/cats15en.jpg

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Those are some freaky looking cats, dude... /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[HopeydaFish]

[ QUOTE ]
Get a laser pointer. Your cats will LOVE this.

[/ QUOTE ]

Mine used to go absolutely bonkers for it. Then they realized that they'd never be able to catch the light, no matter how hard they tried. I think they chase the light now more to humour *me* than anything.

[swede123]

If you live anywhere close to a rural community you should get cats from there. This way you can get healthy kittens for free. Obviously you're doing a good deed by adopting homeless cats, but most of the time you don't get kittens and may end up with monsters that were abused or otherwise mistreated by previous owners. Seriously, farm cats are the bomb-diggity.

Swede

[HopeydaFish]

As always, great advice from Blarg. There are only two points I'd like to make:

1) I've read a bit about clumping litter, and some vets are totally against the idea. The reason is that after the cat uses the litter box, he'll proceed to clean the dust off himself. The clumping litter that the cat injests can clump up in the cat's bowels and cause a blockage. That being said, I've used clumping litter for years and neither of my cats have had any issues.

2) I've never bathed my cats. If you keep your cat from getting obese, and it's a short-haired breed, and you keep him indoors, there's no reason that the cat can't bathe himself. Cats obsessively groom themselves all day.

3) I'm not sure if anyone mentioned this, but wet food is the way to go. Dry food can cause crystals in the cat's urine, especially in females. My female cat had crystals in her urine, but once I switched to wet food (as recommended by my vet), she was fine. The only problem with wet food is that it doesn't clean your cat's teeth. You can get crunchy treats that clean your cat's teeth, though. You can also brush your cat's teeth if he's really docile (I've never seriously thought about doing this, though).

4) Don't get the cheap cat foods. Spend a few bucks more to get the good stuff. Your cat will live longer, have less health problems, and won't get fat (unless you overfeed it).

[Los Feliz Slim]

[ QUOTE ]
As always, great advice from Blarg.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree.

[ QUOTE ]
1) I've read a bit about clumping litter, and some vets are totally against the idea.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've heard this also and also use the clumping litter (Arm & Hammer). Our vet wants us to use the organic corn-based litter you can flush down the toilet, and we don't do it.

[ QUOTE ]
2) I've never bathed my cats.

[/ QUOTE ]

My large formerly-stray beast nearly killed me once when I bathed her, so I don't bathe mine either. I use these wipes that they sell at pet stores if they get stinky (which they do, I think they have anal glands or something that can make them smelly). So I recommend the wipes as a bathing alternative. If they stay indoors they won't get too dirty anyway (although keep the chimney flue closed, my cat once jumped up there and got all sooty).


[ QUOTE ]
3) I'm not sure if anyone mentioned this, but wet food is the way to go.

[/ QUOTE ]

My cats won't eat wet food, which is odd I think.

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4) Don't get the cheap cat foods.

[/ QUOTE ]

I use Wellness food, which our vet recommended.

[ QUOTE ]
http://www.grographics.com/transient/free-cat.jpg

i'm sorry, but it was left wide open.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is possibly the most horrible thing I have ever seen. Yet, I am still laughing.

[M2d]

[ QUOTE ]
Three back cats, three black rats, and a virgin.

[/ QUOTE ]
on OOT, the last part should be easy to find.

[Shajen]

[ QUOTE ]

My cats won't eat wet food, which is odd I think.


[/ QUOTE ]

Mine won't either. Also, of the 5 vets I've gone to, none of them have recommended wet catfood. From what I understand, vets will often get incentives to pimp certain brands of food.

Mine get Iams Adult Hairball formula. (One of them is part Himalayan, and sheds like a beotch.)

Kudos to the OP for getting two. One kitty by itself will be lonely when you are gone.

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Get a laser pointer. Your cats will LOVE this.

[/ QUOTE ]

Mine used to go absolutely bonkers for it. Then they realized that they'd never be able to catch the light, no matter how hard they tried. I think they chase the light now more to humour *me* than anything.

[/ QUOTE ]

Heh, well that's why you've got to let them catch it once in a while! Everyone likes a reward for a good effort!

[colgin]

Lot's of good advice in this thread already. A few more things.

[ QUOTE ]
I've read a bit about clumping litter, and some vets are totally against the idea. The reason is that after the cat uses the litter box, he'll proceed to clean the dust off himself. The clumping litter that the cat injests can clump up in the cat's bowels and cause a blockage. That being said, I've used clumping litter for years and neither of my cats have had any issues.


[/ QUOTE ]

Cheap clumping litter made from clay (e.g., Fresh Scoop) is bad fro several reasons. However, there are certain clumping litters made from safe products that are fine. World's Best Cat Litter (http://www.worldsbestcatlitter.com/) is simply the best. Made from corn it is safe to ingest and produces virtually no dust. I recommend the Multi-cat Formula.

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure if anyone mentioned this, but wet food is the way to go. Dry food can cause crystals in the cat's urine, especially in females. My female cat had crystals in her urine, but once I switched to wet food (as recommended by my vet), she was fine. The only problem with wet food is that it doesn't clean your cat's teeth. You can get crunchy treats that clean your cat's teeth, though. You can also brush your cat's teeth if he's really docile (I've never seriously thought about doing this, though).


[/ QUOTE ]

There is a big wet food/dry food debate. The dry food people are wrong (and I used to be one of them). Feed your kittens wet food 4 times per day (when they are fullgrowm it can be twice) and clean their teeth regulalry and have professional dental cleaning done when necessary (your vet will tell you if it'd necessary.

Also, buy a premium cat food. Try to finda specialty pet shop rather than a Petco if possible. You can always go mailorder. Some of the best premium brands are Abady, Innova, Merrick's, Wellness and Halo (Spot's Stew). You can always get Nutro Max at Petco and that is pretty good too (I used to feed my cats tha brand until they needed a more specialzed diet).

Avoid anything with fish in it. Cat's don't need fish and it is not good for them notwithstanding the huge number of foods that have them in it. Cats don't eat a whle lot of fish in the wild. Stick with chicken, beef, turkey and other meats.

Change the water twice per day and clean the litter box twice per day.

Halo makes a very health freeze dried chicken treat that my cats love.
Get a good book on cat care so that you will be prepared.

Enjoy the added company. You will be very happy you did this. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
As always, great advice from Blarg. There are only two points I'd like to make:

1) I've read a bit about clumping litter, and some vets are totally against the idea. The reason is that after the cat uses the litter box, he'll proceed to clean the dust off himself. The clumping litter that the cat injests can clump up in the cat's bowels and cause a blockage. That being said, I've used clumping litter for years and neither of my cats have had any issues.

2) I've never bathed my cats. If you keep your cat from getting obese, and it's a short-haired breed, and you keep him indoors, there's no reason that the cat can't bathe himself. Cats obsessively groom themselves all day.

3) I'm not sure if anyone mentioned this, but wet food is the way to go. Dry food can cause crystals in the cat's urine, especially in females. My female cat had crystals in her urine, but once I switched to wet food (as recommended by my vet), she was fine. The only problem with wet food is that it doesn't clean your cat's teeth. You can get crunchy treats that clean your cat's teeth, though. You can also brush your cat's teeth if he's really docile (I've never seriously thought about doing this, though).

4) Don't get the cheap cat foods. Spend a few bucks more to get the good stuff. Your cat will live longer, have less health problems, and won't get fat (unless you overfeed it).

[/ QUOTE ]

1. My vet never had a problem with it. But some of it is more dustless than others. Some is quite dusty indeed. I wouldn't want my cat -- or me -- inhaling the dusty stuff. You can get brands where the grains of the litter are quite large, and that's the kind I liked.

2. I had Persians. They needed a huge amount of grooming and bathing. That's one reason I wouldn't recommend Persians for anyone but someone prepared to spend as much time grooming their cat as the cat himself does.

3. Wet food is not the way to go and is usually not recommended by vets. Crystals in a cat's urine are idiopathic, that is, they depend on the cat and on the food. It's not that it's dry, it's what's in the food and how your cat reacts to it. The two main concerns with cat food are ash and texture. Wet or dry cat food can contain ash, which cats are incredibly sensitive to, and which can give them all sorts of internal problems. Most retail cat food is very high in ash; that's why a good Vet brand like Iams is the way to go. The texture problem is just my way of saying that it is much healthier for cats to give their teeth and gum adequate stimulation by making them crunch through a dry food than slurp up a wet one.

Again, I'm sure your vet was right for your cat, but endorsing wet food is not the norm with vets - quite the opposite is true.

4. Damn right.

[Voltron87]

[ QUOTE ]
Crystals in a cat's urine are idiopathic

[/ QUOTE ]

blarg knows everything. its offical.

[colgin]

[ QUOTE ]
Wet food is not the way to go and is usually not recommended by vets.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hate to break the news but most vets (even really good ones) actually don't get much training on nutrition. For example, I go to the Cat Practice in New York which is considered one of the premier vets for cats and the doctors there really don't seem to know much about the ingredients in the food they recommend/prescribe. For example, my vet (who is otherwise excellent) suggested food for my cat with deteriorating kidneys (thankfully not yet in CRF) that was IMO of a very low quality (notwithstanding the fact that it was low in phosphorous as it should be for him) and said that the specialty dry food was as good as the wet. Even I knew that having a cat with kidney problems continue to eat dry food was crazy.

Here is a really good article on the problems with dry food for cats:

Feeding Your Cat (http://www.catinfo.org/#Common_Feline_Health_Problems_and_Their_Ties_to_D iet_)

I do agree that you need to monitor teeth and gums on a wet food diet. Then again I have never seen any convincing evidence (notwithstanding many claims) that dry food cleans at all a cat's teeth.

[FishNChips]

[ QUOTE ]
They will be fixed (I think its required anyway), I will never declaw, although they will probably just be inside cats (although I may not fully appreciate the ramifactions of such a decision).

[/ QUOTE ]

fixed = good
declawed = good

I'm not a cat psychologist, so I don't know how it makes them feel, but I'll tell this:
we had 2 cats
they clawed [censored] (drapes, sofa, chair, other drapes, other chair, other sofa)
I told my wife either the claws go or the cats go
the claws went
the cats came home and peed on a cushion as a protest
we threw out the cushion
nothing else was ever ruined

if you're going to keep them inside they have exactly ZERO need for claws. safe your furniture!

FishNChips

[MtSmalls]

Just to throw a few extra cents in:

I would recommend getting one male and one female cat, rather than two females. Just like people, two women in the same house make for less happiness. Even if they are fixed. If you are getting siblings from the same litter, it might not matter as much, but female cats tend to be very dominant, and unless you get a VERY passive female, there will be issues. Male cats tend to be VERY laid back, so two male cats is a better choice than two female cats.

At least that has been my experience over time....

[colgin]

[ QUOTE ]
I would recommend getting one male and one female cat, rather than two females.

[/ QUOTE ]

This had been recommended to me as well. So I got a male to keep my female company. Well, they hate eachother. Go figure. I love them both though. If you get littermates compatability should be less of an issue regardless.

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
They will be fixed (I think its required anyway), I will never declaw, although they will probably just be inside cats (although I may not fully appreciate the ramifactions of such a decision).

[/ QUOTE ]

fixed = good
declawed = good

I'm not a cat psychologist, so I don't know how it makes them feel, but I'll tell this:
we had 2 cats
they clawed [censored] (drapes, sofa, chair, other drapes, other chair, other sofa)
I told my wife either the claws go or the cats go
the claws went
the cats came home and peed on a cushion as a protest
we threw out the cushion
nothing else was ever ruined

if you're going to keep them inside they have exactly ZERO need for claws. safe your furniture!

FishNChips

[/ QUOTE ]

Declawing is not good. I don't think you have to be a cat pychologist to know how it must feel to get every last joint of all your fingers and toes clipped off.

Please ignore this fellow's "advice" as thoroughly as possible on this matter.

[Blarg]

I'm not at all sure I buy the premise that cats or any carnivores don't have enough instincts to drink as much water as they need. Or that cats, an animal that spends up to 18 hours a day or more sleeping, have such a high water need that having plenty of clean water about won't suffice.

Of course wet food will have more water content, but eating food is not the only way to get water into the system. The other way is quite natural and easy.

If you worry your cat is not drinking enough water, I'd just be extra sure to keep the bowl scrupulously clean, including the outside, to get rid of smells. Change the water often. And cats often like it cold, too. Cats can be extraordinarily finicky about clean food and water.

As to food that is tougher to eat helping clean teeth, that's self-evident. If you don't have a tootbrush handy when you're out and around town, eat an apple. You'll notice the difference.

[Los Feliz Slim]

On the subject of water, my cats have a cat fountain with a filter. They loooove it. It cleans the water, and since it's constantly running I think it's slightly cooler. And I only have to fill it every couple of days or so, it's got a reservoir.

[OtisTheMarsupial]

I think you got plenty of good advice here already, but here are my two cents:

- Keep them indoors. They will live longer, be healthier, be more playful, be cleaner and do less damage to the environment. Tell everyone who comes over that the cats are not allowed outside.
- Do not declaw. Just trim their claws and teach them to use a scratching post.
- Get a special container for food that keeps ants out.
- Feed them mostly dry food. It's better for their teeth and they will live longer.
- Be nice and gentle with them when they're young. If you play rough with them when they're babies, they will turn into attack cats when they're older.
- Get them microchips. If you get them from a shelter, the shelter will probably give you a deal - I got my cats chips at the shelter for 5 bucks a pop!
- Invest in an automatic litter box and some air freshener. Clean that [censored] often!

Welcome to heaven.

[colgin]

I understand that you are not alone in your opinion re dry food. I used to give my cats a combination of dry and wet. However, I have done quite a bit of research on this topic and believe that wet food is by far preferable.

Here is another excellent piece (in addition to the one I cited earlier) on this issue supporting wet food:

The Truth About Dry Cat Food (http://www.blakkatz.com/dryfood.html)

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not at all sure I buy the premise that cats or any carnivores don't have enough instincts to drink as much water as they need. . . .Of course wet food will have more water content, but eating food is not the only way to get water into the system. The other way is quite natural and easy.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you may overestimate the amount of such self-regulation. The cat won't literally die of thirst but it may take in less water than optimal. From the Bernard article:

"Cats evolved as desert creatures and are well adapted (still!) to survive in a dry climate, if fed their natural food. Cats are not thirst driven like dogs and are able to survive on less water than dogs. . . .When fed a dry food diet (which has less than 10 percent moisture), unless they drink a lot of water, which most cats do not, they are in a constant state of dehydration. Moreover, although a cat consuming a dry food diet does drink more water than a cat consuming a canned food diet, in the end, when water from all sources is added together — what's in their diet plus what they drink — the cat consumes approximately HALF the amount of water compared with a cat eating canned foods."

[ QUOTE ]
As to food that is tougher to eat helping clean teeth, that's self-evident.

[/ QUOTE ]

From Bernard:

"Contrary to what most people have been told by their veterinarian, dry food does not clean teeth! When a cat chews dry food, it shatters into small pieces. In order to promote effective cleansing of tooth and gums, the food must remain in contact with the teeth and gums for a period of time. Nothing is going to provide effective abrasive cleansing than chunks of raw meat."

Plus, there is the whole excess carbohydrates in dry food that can lead to getting obese and other problems.

[ QUOTE ]
THe lifespan of an outdoor cat is like a year and a half.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm all for people keeping their cats indoors and not letting them roam the streets but that year and a half lifespan is BS.

[Blarg]

No it's not. Cats breed quickly and can die quickly too. What you're looking at is the survivors, or: the absence of all that. You cannot draw the conclusion that because you see some older cats living outdoors, that there are not many who have perished pretty quickly. You're not seeing either the incredible birth rate or the incredible death rate.

[Blarg]

I'll agree that food getting caught between the teeth causes decay, but not that it doesn't clean the teeth. The cat's teeth don't work like identically opposed pincers that release pressure at the moment the structural integrity of the food is compromised; a cat follows through and chews at least a little, like everyone else does. It veers into the absurd to say that abrasive foods will not abrade the teeth, or that cat food will not scrape down the teeth, you will find a way to get wedged between them. It's got to be one or the other. And since we know without question that food can get wedged between teeth pretty easily, ir follows that it must follow a path to get there -- by being chewed down the teeth in the exact same manner as would accomplish cleansing of the teeth.

I have a problem with the web site you listed. It seems to push its arguments much too far, and with more assurance than logic. Every paragraph feels like an agenda being stridently pushed. By my take, this lady thinks dry food and cereal based foods might as well be the root of all evil, and she injects thoughts on same even where inappropriate, much like a religious nut always manages to wedge Jesus into every subject.

I understand she has her feelings and ideas about things, but there is more than one vet in the world, and many don't follow her line. If I were to take confidence in her ideas, they would probably have to come from somebody else.

[Rhone]

Wow, tons of great advice in this thread. Pets seem to bring out the best in (most) people.

Anyway, there's one thing that hasn't been mentioned yet, but needs to be: Litter Maid. It is awesome, and will change your life.

[HopeydaFish]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Crystals in a cat's urine are idiopathic

[/ QUOTE ]

blarg knows everything. its offical.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL...he has definitely convinced me to do a little more research about wet food, that's for sure. I'm lucky with my cats -- they'll eat just about anything I put in their bowls.

[OrangeCat]

Food: I used to feed my cats raw meat (beef heart, cost about $1/lb) mixed with a power supplement (Missing Link). This is probably the best thing you can feed a cat. It is not much more expensive than cans. It is not all that bad to give them dry food. The main thing is to avoid dry foods that have corn as a major ingredient. Cats are carnivores and don’t produce the enzymes to digest high carb foods. Eagle Pack is good and not expensive. Eukinaba is good. Friskies cans or OK but the dry food is terrible (high corn content). Manufacturers put something into the dry food that cats crave but it is like feeding your kids ice cream and Fritos. They like it but it’s not what they should eat.

Kittens need a lot of protein. KMR is good for them. Don’t leave wet food out for more than half a day.

Use the scoopable/clumping litter. The only time you don’t want to use this is if the kittens are very young and don’t yet understand what a litter box is. This is because a small kitten will eat the litter and the scoopable stuff could possibly cause a blockage in the intestine. For small kittens use the natural wheat litter called Worlds Best or similar.

Use Advantage for flea control.

Get a scratching pole wrapped with thistle rope. It lasts longer than the carpet poles and does not make a mess when they tear it up. A cat with a good scratching pole is far less likely to scratch the furniture.

In general, the best pet cats are altered males.

Laser pointers are a great toy. Easy for you tons of fun for them.

Absolutely do not declaw the cat. This is a cruel and inhumane thing to do.

Keep them inside. If you don't ever let them out from an early age, chances are they will never even desire to go out. The idea that cats need to roam is total bull.

[OrangeCat]

[ QUOTE ]


Here are my 2 boys.

http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/314/cats15en.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]
They look like Orientals. Cool.

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]

Welcome to hell.

[/ QUOTE ]

You didn't seriously think I wouldn't FYP, did you?

[scott8]

I just wanted to follow up with this thread.

Yesterday, I adopted a brother and sister from one of the local shelters. I couldn't be happier with this decision.

Thanks to everyone that contributed, and a special thank you to Blarg who took a lot of time and effort to educate.

-SC

[pokerdirty]

post pics of your pussy.

[scott8]

Also, if we ever have a pet forum, I think this thread has enough quality to be stickied /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[Slow Play Ray]

[ QUOTE ]
post pics of your pussy.

[/ QUOTE ]

[scott8]

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/4885/47b5ce07b3127cce98548818348a00.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Shajen]

/images/graemlins/heart.gif

[Paluka]

Holy crap those are good lookin cats! I did the exact same thing one year ago, a brother and a sister. When I got them Lucy was a year old, and Johnny Damon was 6 months. They were the same size. Now Johnny is twice as big, because Lucy never grew again.

[scott8]

These guys are twins and are about 3 months old.

[pokerdirty]

it's cause Johnny Damon's on the 'roids.

[partygirluk]

Great thread. When I move to the States in 9 months I would like to get a couple of pets of my own. Many places allow cats, not dogs, so I will likely get a couple of them. A couple of qs

i) How bad is it for the cats if you never let them out of the house?

ii) If I don't let them out of the house, where are they going to do their toilet business?

Cheers,

Dean

[Shajen]

[ QUOTE ]
Great thread. When I move to the States in 9 months I would like to get a couple of pets of my own. Many places allow cats, not dogs, so I will likely get a couple of them. A couple of qs

i) How bad is it for the cats if you never let them out of the house?

ii) If I don't let them out of the house, where are they going to do their toilet business?

Cheers,

Dean

[/ QUOTE ]

1) they'll be fine, better off in fact. Read the thread, it's full of good info.

2) litter boxes.

[Paluka]

[ QUOTE ]
Great thread. When I move to the States in 9 months I would like to get a couple of pets of my own. Many places allow cats, not dogs, so I will likely get a couple of them. A couple of qs

i) How bad is it for the cats if you never let them out of the house?

ii) If I don't let them out of the house, where are they going to do their toilet business?

Cheers,

Dean

[/ QUOTE ]

Cats are fine never leaving the house, they do their dirty biz in a litter box.

[scott8]

At the shelter I had to fill out a questionnaire before I could adopt. One of the questions asked whether they will be kept indoors/outdoors.

After I adopted I was told that they will not give cats to people that will keep them outdoors.

[HopeydaFish]

[ QUOTE ]

ii) If I don't let them out of the house, where are they going to do their toilet business?


[/ QUOTE ]

On your chest. Cats are notorious for their Cleveland Steamers.

Seriously, I'm shocked that you aren't aware of the existence of litter boxes.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
Seriously, I'm shocked that you aren't aware of the existence of litter boxes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Also a couple of other cat-owner tips, when you get your cats, be aware that cats don'r require food or water and prefer to sleep in an airtight container such as a large tupperware bowl at night.

[Blarg]

You're welcome, and that picture is cute as hell!

[partygirluk]

What exactly is a litter box? Some box with a scent that makes the cat want to poo and wee in it?

[Los Feliz Slim]

Nope, it just has "litter" in it, which is essentially simulated dirt. The cats just instinctually know that's where they're supposed to do their business. Most cats, anyway.

[Inthacup]

litter box:

http://www.users.cloud9.net/~bradmcc/sq/litterbox.jpg

[Dominic]

do not declaw - but you will want to protect your furniture and rugs - I have three cats and use this product - it's awesome:

soft paws (http://www.safepetproducts.com/pilot.asp?pg=softpaws_info&GCID=S16049x006&KEYWORD =soft+paws)

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
do not declaw - but you will want to protect your furniture and rugs - I have three cats and use this product - it's awesome:
soft paws (http://www.safepetproducts.com/pilot.asp?pg=softpaws_info&GCID=S16049x006&KEYWORD =soft+paws)

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting. That's a new one on me. Of course, I prefer just wrapping the whole cat in plastic myself... /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[mosuavea]

[ QUOTE ]
do not declaw - but you will want to protect your furniture and rugs - I have three cats and use this product - it's awesome:

soft paws (http://www.safepetproducts.com/pilot.asp?pg=softpaws_info&GCID=S16049x006&KEYWORD =soft+paws)

[/ QUOTE ]

Rather than start a new thread on this, my GF and I are getting a kitten this weekend and I am glad I found this thread, excellent ideas. Neither of us have ever owned a cat before and any other advice not metioned in this thread is appreciated.

I am kind of worried about the clawing of furniture, and the product Dom posted looks like it has some promise, just curious if there are any testimonials? Also, aside from this or the squirt gun idea, anything else to prevent it?

Excellent thread guys.

Train em in the traditional pirate cat ways.

Rum, Sodomy and the Lash, me hearty! arr!

Rum is ye reward fer em
The Lash is ye deterrent fer em

And sodomy depends on the mood, arr!

[Lazymeatball]

[ QUOTE ]
do not declaw - but you will want to protect your furniture and rugs - I have three cats and use this product - it's awesome:

soft paws (http://www.safepetproducts.com/pilot.asp?pg=softpaws_info&GCID=S16049x006&KEYWORD =soft+paws)

[/ QUOTE ]

ha ha, I like the demonstration page (http://www.safepetproducts.com/pilot.asp?pg=application)

Good luck getting any non-sedated cat to sit still for that 20 times.

[emil3000]

My cat has developed an interesting new habit this week. Fidgeting open the drain in my shower, drinking the water found in there foolowed by getting sick on the carpet as the grand finale. Quite charming.

[MonkeeMan]

Our cat is the biggest pain in the arse in the history of arses. Life would be worse without him.

[vexvelour]

I didn't read through the responses, but as a longtime cat owner, here is my advice.

1. If you like your furniture or carpet, you're going to have to get them declawed. Do this only if you're sure they will become inside cats for life, because if they become outside cats they will have no way to defend themselves in the wild. Declawing is nowhere near as inhumane as it was a few years ago- they do it with a laser now and recovery time is very short. My 2nd cat had this done and he was fine as soon as the meds wore off.

2. Invest in decent food. You don't have to spend $30 on a bag of food, but make sure it's not crap, either. One of my cats got a horrible UTI from crappy food I bought him and it ended up costing me an assload more to get that fixed than it would to just buy good food. Also, if you get them started on wet food they will expect that from then on and will not eat dry food.

3. As for toys, they love balls and stuff, but it'll get lost in approximately 5 seconds under the fridge or stove or couch. My cats love the stupidest things- mostly caps from bottles and socks and stuff. Catnip filled stuff is always a good idea. The best toy in my eyes is the stick with a long string and a feather or other toy attached at the end. My cats love this toy and drop it on my face when I'm sleeping because they want to play with it.

Those are the only really important things I can think of. The automatic litter boxes are nice, except don't get the littlersweep one at PetsMart because it doesn't work. Trust me on this one. Be aware also that if the box isn't clean they'll poop elsewhere- on the carpet, and my one cat used to poop in the shower if the box was too dirty. Kitties are cute but are hell on earth (mine were) to deal with because they don't listen at all. It's a excersize in patience, for sure.

Good luck and I hope my advice helps! Enjoy your kitties and post pics when you get them!

[wdeadwyler]

I would reccomend not declawing. I had the greatest cat ever. He was energetic, cute, clever, and just awesome. We declawed him when we moved and he just got fat and depressed. We had to put him to sleep at 4 because he had massive liver damage (not sure what caused this)

My point is he was never the same after we declawed him.

[OrangeCat]

Don't declaw the kitten. You can train them to use a scratching post. The ones made out of sisal (rope or fabric) are the best. Here is a good site :

http://www.purrfectpost.com/html/whycatsscratch.html

You could also learn how to trim their nails. They will resist at first but most kittens will accept it is you start early and pet them a lot when you finish.