$10r 45k, JJ near the bubble, AKA why I suck at NL

[Surfbullet]

Table was tight for awhile, but steals have started to open up the past 20 mins or so. Players have re-steal'ed on me about 4-5x in the past 4 orbits. I've laid down to a push every time.

edit: 230 left, top 135 get paid. avg stack = 43k, but my table is particularly chip-heavy.

Why can't I go with my gut? I hate my play in this hand.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t1600 (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero (t37026)
MP3 (t8923)
CO (t61862)
Button (t42770)
SB (t37980)
BB (t23977)
UTG (t72588)
UTG+1 (t49538)
MP1 (t83135)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t4800</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to t12800</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls t8000.

Flop: (t26125) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t24151 (All-In)</font>...

Surf

[LethalRose]

push preflop.

[billyjex]

[ QUOTE ]
push preflop.

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[Surfbullet]

[ QUOTE ]
push preflop.

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I think it's closer to a fold than a push PF. The resteals have all been Allins...why would he leave 2/3rd of his stack behind? he's pot-committing himself, which he wouldn't do with AK/AQ because the flop makes or breaks him. In fact, I don't see why this isn't a clear fold. postflop seems standard given pot size etc.

Surf

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
push preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's closer to a fold than a push PF. The resteals have all been Allins...why would he leave 2/3rd of his stack behind? he's pot-committing himself, which he wouldn't do with AK/AQ because the flop makes or breaks him. In fact, I don't see why this isn't a clear fold. postflop seems standard given pot size etc.

Surf

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I think this is slightly results oriented. Many make this play with A3o.

[Surfbullet]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
push preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's closer to a fold than a push PF. The resteals have all been Allins...why would he leave 2/3rd of his stack behind? he's pot-committing himself, which he wouldn't do with AK/AQ because the flop makes or breaks him. In fact, I don't see why this isn't a clear fold. postflop seems standard given pot size etc.

Surf

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is slightly results oriented. Many make this play with A3o.

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That may be so.

But he's raising 12.8k into an ~8kish pot. This isn't a "please fold!" reraise. All i'd seen were allin resteals... it doesn't make sense as a resteal?

Surf

[ZBTHorton]

[ QUOTE ]
push preflop.

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[Exitonly]

while i don't think it's quite as clear as everyone else, i think it's a push PF too.

[benneh]

why cant a non-all in be a resteal? you've laid down enough to all ins by now that i'd be willing to see how much it costs to raise you out of a pot without risking my entire (or your entire stack) to jerk you around

[LethalRose]

Reasons why I push preflop

1) with 20 or so BB if you call this reraise your OOP and have no room to play poker

2) you have been pushed around a little bit and you need to show these players you are not afraid of a coinflip or making a stand. Some players as it gets closer to the money get bullied over by the big stacks and are afraid to call AI for all their chips with AQ. You just have to do it sometimes.

If you plan on folding to a reraise a smaller bet preflop would do the trick, calling the reraise is bad, push preflop.

by pushing this flop 80% you will get called by someone who got a queen. Get your money in as a favorite preflop, dont let them get away when they miss with overcards.


unfortunately with online MTT's at some point you have to be willing to take a coinflop or 60/40. Dont think the better players can avoid this, with the structures the way they are its very difficult if not impossible to win a MTT without winning a coinflip. If you play well you can minimize the # of flips you need to win.

[Surfbullet]

[ QUOTE ]
why cant a non-all in be a resteal? you've laid down enough to all ins by now that i'd be willing to see how much it costs to raise you out of a pot without risking my entire (or your entire stack) to jerk you around

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, i'd called an allin or 2 with AK and doubled up short-stacks, so I wasn't ONLY folding. Also, I'd done my share of re-stealing, it wasn't like all I did was fold or raise-fold every hand, though my image may have been worse than I considered.

I'd also been having a bad run of cards so I was playing pretty tight on the whole.

Surf

[Surfbullet]

1)The call was really bad, especially given relative stack sizes. The call was reflexive (it's my default in aggressive limit games when I have a decent made hand b/c it's the least risky...only been playing tourneys for about 3 weeks)...the call was really bad, I see that now.

2)True. I had made a few stands, I just hadn't won them. I'd rebuilt my stack each time through steals.

[ QUOTE ]

If you plan on folding to a reraise a smaller bet preflop would do the trick, calling the reraise is bad, push preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't plan on folding to a reraise. I had decided before the hand to tighten up. When I got JJ I saw an opportunity to try and double up (or bust someone), so i raised the same as the steals intending to call an allin. When he reraised me small I became quite suspicious, it was just less than 3x my raise size which seems to beg for a call. The only "Beg for a call" hands I would expect from a tight guy who has been playing raise-or-fold is QQ-AA. I have no doubt he'd push AK here and I'd happily call.

Thanks for the input everyone. I'm not shy at all about taking a coinflip when I think it's there or risking my tournament on a 5% edge...this hand just really got to me because I KNEW he had QQ+ and I should fold...but I couldn't do it.

Anyway, he turbocalled the flop with QQ and turned quads. I feel like if I listened to my instincts(as i've been learning to do) I'd have dodged this bullet... the uncharacteristic nature of the small reraise set off warning bells in my head, but I didn't listen.

Surf